BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 HADCRUT has more Data in the arctic than GISS........Skier, just stop already GISS completely missed a cold area north of Svalbard. They show that region several degrees above normal. GISS has almost no coverage in the Canadian Arctic GISS has almost no coverage in Greenland GISS has no coverage in the Chukchi Sea or Arctic Basin GISS has very poor coverage around Antarctica GISS has very poor coverage in Africa GISS missed large regions of below normal temperatures in the southern oceans and Antarctica http://wattsupwithth...emp-vs-hadcrut/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 HADCRUT has more Data in the arctic than GISS........Skier, just stop already GISS completely missed a cold area north of Svalbard. They show that region several degrees above normal. GISS has almost no coverage in the Canadian Arctic GISS has almost no coverage in Greenland GISS has no coverage in the Chukchi Sea or Arctic Basin GISS has very poor coverage around Antarctica GISS has very poor coverage in Africa GISS missed large regions of below normal temperatures in the southern oceans and Antarctica It doesn't matter. HadCRUT is biased cold because it leaves large areas we know are warming rapidly blank. Infill HadCRUT with UAH satellite data and it comes into near agreement with GISS. No matter what you post you cannot get around this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It doesn't matter. HadCRUT is biased cold because it leaves large areas we know are warming rapidly blank. Infill HadCRUT with UAH satellite data and it comes into near agreement with GISS. No matter what you post you cannot get around this fact. Bullsh*t. No it doesn't, you're making things up as you go. Satellite is colder than both GISS & HADCRUT......Stop. "It misses areas we know are warming"........GISS is the only source that shows them warming! Proving my point that it is an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Bullsh*t, no it doesn't, you're making things up as you go. Satellite is colder than both GISS & HADCRUT......Stop I don't think you even understood what I wrote. If you fill in the blank areas on HadCRUT with UAH satellite data, it brings HadCRUT nearly in line with GISS. This is because the areas that are blank on HadCRUT have warmed rapidly. In other words, HadCRUT misses large areas of rapid warming and is therefore biased cold. It's very simple. 1) HadCRUT leaves most of the arctic blank 2) UAH shows ~1C of warming across the arctic over the last 20 years 3) Therefore, HadCRUT is biased cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think you even understood what I wrote. If you fill in the blank areas on HadCRUT with UAH satellite data, it brings HadCRUT nearly in line with GISS. This is because the areas that are blank on HadCRUT have warmed rapidly. In other words, HadCRUT misses large areas of rapid warming and is therefore biased cold. I don't think you understand anything. Why would anyone fill it with GISS data when GISS is the outlier? HADCRUT has more data than GISS, & Matches Satellites alot Better. GISS is the only outlier here dude. HADCRUT has several areas of Below avg anoms that ONLY match with Satellite...GISS is the only one that doesn't match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Also if you are going to directly cut and paste text from another website you need to provide a link instead of claiming that text as your own. It's always easy to tell when you are copying someone else's writing because it is actually coherent. The text you plagiarized comes from here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/18/gistemp-vs-hadcrut/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think you even understood what I wrote. If you fill in the blank areas on HadCRUT with UAH satellite data, it brings HadCRUT nearly in line with GISS. This is because the areas that are blank on HadCRUT have warmed rapidly. In other words, HadCRUT misses large areas of rapid warming and is therefore biased cold. It's very simple. 1) HadCRUT leaves most of the arctic blank 2) UAH shows ~1C of warming across the arctic over the last 20 years 3) Therefore, HadCRUT is biased cold. Wrong. GISS is biased warm. Notice HADCRUT has Colder than avg temps in the sSouthern Ocean.. that matches Satellite data! GISS is the only one thats warm. HADCRUT has most of the arctic filled, and has more data. NO DATA = NO DATA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Also if you are going to directly cut and paste text from another website you need to provide a link instead of claiming that text as your own. It's always easy to tell when you are copying someone else's writing because it is actually coherent. The text you plagiarized comes from here: http://wattsupwithth...emp-vs-hadcrut/ Look at my first quote, the link is there, you responded so fast I didn't have time to edit. Nice of you to make it look like I was plagarizing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 HADCRUT even has Colder than avg Anoms in the Arctic...where GISS has no data, & falsly extrapolates warmth. Again...look at the southern ocean, & the number of "average" on hadcrut. Satellite matches HADCRUT, not GISS. GISS is biased warm, game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Look at my first quote, the link is there, you responded so fast I didn't have time to edit. Nice of you to make it look like I was plagarizing... I didn't edit anything. You edited it after the fact. The copied text should still be in quotations or italicized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I didn't edit anything. You edited it after the fact. The copied text should still be in quotations or italicized. The link had been there for 5 minutes... but you didn't bother to look to see if I had edited, & you went and falsly stated that I was plagarizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 HADCRUT even has Colder than avg Anoms in the Arctic...where GISS has no data, & falsly extrapolates warmth. Again...look at the southern ocean, & the number of "average" on hadcrut. Satellite matches HADCRUT, not GISS. GISS is biased warm, game over. You are not even paying attention to what I am saying, so this discussion is over. I'll say it one more time. Take HadCRUT. Now fill in the areas HadCRUT leaves blank with satellite data. The result is fairly close to GISS. This is because the areas HadCRUT leaves blank (IE the arctic) have warmed rapidly the last 20 years. HadCRUT misses the rapid warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The link had been there for 5 minutes... but you didn't bother to look to see if I had edited, & you went and falsly stated that I was plagarizing. It's not my responsibility to see if you have edited your posts after the fact. It still needs to be in quotations or italicized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 To get back on topic, as shown by HADCRUT's Colder than avg anoms measured in the Southern Ocean, Parts of the Arctic, & The Fact that HADCRUT has more Data than GISS, & the Fact that HADCRUT matches up with everyone else EXCEPT GISS, including the Satellite data....proves that GISS is indeed the outlier. ok? Case closed dude. GISS is the only one that shows that amount of warmth... & it happens to have the least amount of Data, & thus, its the outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You are not even paying attention to what I am saying, so this discussion is over. I'll say it one more time. Take HadCRUT. Now fill in the areas HadCRUT leaves blank with satellite data. The result is fairly close to GISS. This is because the areas HadCRUT leaves blank (IE the arctic) have warmed rapidly the last 20 years. HadCRUT misses the rapid warming. Haha.....You loose Bro , you have failed to offer a rebuttal without errors. This is over. I'll say it one more time... Satellite is Colder than Both GISS & HADCRUT, where HADCRUT shows cooling, Satellite shows Cooling, along with other areas of the globe. Satellite does NOT show the same MAGNITUDE of warming that GISS does. Why would I Fill the HADCRUT with GISS data? HADCRUT shows Cooling in parts of the Arctic... GISS is too warm there. So,how do we know that the rest are not cooling as well? The Magnitude that GISS shows is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It's not my responsibility to see if you have edited your posts after the fact. It still needs to be in quotations or italicized. But it is your responsiblilty to not jump to false conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 GISS (1951-1980) HadCru (1961-1990) NOAA-NCDC (1961-1990) RSS (1979-1999) UAH (1979-1999) Bethesda, Do you think that because GISS uses the earliest (cooler) baseline period that it's anomalies show warmer? Just maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 GISS (1951-1980) HadCru (1961-1990) NOAA-NCDC (1961-1990) RSS (1979-1999) UAH (1979-1999) Bethesda, Do you think that because GISS uses the earliest (cooler) baseline period that it's anomalies show warmer? Still doesn't explain all the difference. The difference between the two baselines is under 0.1C.....the warm bias is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It shows slightly more. However relative to the large magnitude of arctic warming, the difference is small. Infilling HadCRUT with UAH arctic data would bring HadCRUT mostly in line with GISS over the last two decades. What is surprising in this whole story is not the difference between GISS and HadCRUT/UAH/RSS. It is the difference between HadCRUT/GISS (which are mostly in agreement once the arctic is accounted for) vs RSS vs UAH. I say vs RSS vs UAH and not vs RSS/UAH because RISS and UAH are not in agreement with each other. In fact the most striking area of disagreement between all of the sources is UAH vs RSS, followed by surface vs satellite. The differences between GISS and HadCRUT once the arctic is accounted for are smaller than those between surface and satellite and even intra-satellite (RSS VS UAH). Not surprising since GISS and HadCRUT use nearly the same data. Not over the past decade, which is the period with the greatest amount of disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 FWIW, my predicted global temperature anomalies for 2011 are: GISS: +0.52°C UAH: +0.10°C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 FWIW, my predicted global temperature anomalies for 2011 are: GISS: +0.52°C UAH: +0.10°C Speaking of which.. I was hoping we could start a poll like we have in years past. Not sure if that should be a separate thread or not. Maybe they can be combined? Or this one could just be deleted/ignored considering Bethesda already derailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 GISS (1951-1980) HadCru (1961-1990) NOAA-NCDC (1961-1990) RSS (1979-1999) UAH (1979-1999) Bethesda, Do you think that because GISS uses the earliest (cooler) baseline period that it's anomalies show warmer? Just maybe? No. If you put all of the temp sources on the same baseline, GISS has still been consistently running the warmest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Speaking of which.. I was hoping we could start a poll like we have in years past. Not sure if that should be a separate thread or not. Maybe they can be combined? Or this one could just be deleted/ignored considering Bethesda already derailed it. I derailed your argument... you chose to respond, not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. If you put all of the temp sources on the same baseline, GISS has still been consistently running the warmest. Exactly. Has the least amount of data too. Everyone is in reasonable agreement except for GISS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. If you put all of the temp sources on the same baseline, GISS has still been consistently running the warmest. Here they are all plotted on the same baseline: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Here they are all plotted on the same baseline: Thankyou... GISS has still run the warmest..... Kind of a pointless post if you're trying to argue GISS is not warm biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thankyou... GISS has still run the warmest..... Kind of a pointless post if you're trying to argue GISS is not warm biased. Who cares which is the warmest? The trends are nearly identical, all between 0.14 - 0.17C per decade. The trend is what is important, not the absolute temperature. We will never have a perfectly precise measure of global temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thankyou... GISS has still run the warmest..... Kind of a pointless post if you're trying to argue GISS is not warm biased. It demonstrates that the differences between them are nearly entirely due to the use of different baselines. Given that baseline selection is entirely meaningless/arbitrary and that it is only relative changes and trends that are important, this demonstrates that GISS is not warm biased and is in near perfect agreement with the other sources on the amount and the rate of warming when looking at periods of 20+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Who cares which is the warmest? The trends are nearly identical, all between 0.14 - 0.17C per decade. The trend is what is important, not the absolute temperature. We will never have a perfectly precise measure of global temperature. If you combine the trends as one thing, then yes, obviously. But thats not how to measure. If you seperate the incriments between the differences...into timeframes (aka late 90's to today, & 1979-1996), you can see where the devations begin... as a result of AMO potentially affecting GISS more than satellites? They all agree on the Flat Line since the late 90's... The problem.....the arctic! Even if you remove the baseline differences, the warm bias is still there. The arctic is a very small area, but it is the reason why GISS is a bit too warm. Again, its a small area of coverage, but it makes a world of difference. If the deviations continue to rise, soon we'll know if something is wrong with GISS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 the arctic is clearly warm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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