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NYC/PHL Jan 18-19 Potential Threat Thread


am19psu

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Only a govt agency can make this advisory to other govt agencies. I can tell both govt agencies until I am blue in the face of the possibilities but the Emergency Management Coordinators(EMC) from each county can only talk to PEMA and Penn Dot to make their respective recommendations. Mt. Holly office can do this by issuing an Ice Storm Warning for the affected counties and communicating their thoughts on the storm event when requested by the EMC. Thanks

More than likely you do not know what goes on behind the scenes. There are however briefings ongoing regarding the upcoming winter precipitation event. A short slideshow version of this can be found at this link: http://www.erh.noaa.gov/phi/briefing/packages/index.php

As for the 2007 sleet/ice storm, the forecasts were not that bad given the amount of sleet that fell. There were other issues at hand which involved miscommunications between PennDOT and the PA State Police. There was a rather involved investigation that followed that storm with many recommendations that were made, and then changes that were implemented.

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OZ Nam will be the 1st run for this storm that is within the 60 hour window when the NAM is most accurate -

It is also when the NAM recieves new data, so it should be very interesting to see what the 0Z NAM shows, to say the very least. Mt. Holly has a much cooler forecast than what they suggested this morning for their entire region.

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lol. what does it take to be a meteorologist on here? tombo is the true expert.

Dude, if you don't want to get sanctioned, don't repeatedly ask how qpf for your backyard. Quite honestly, I've never seen a post from you that didn't ask that. I'm not trying to be a tough guy, but rather am only trying to educate you so that we all get along. Like Tombo said, ask the question in the banter thread and a bunch of people will be happy to answer your question.

Anyway, back to the analysis...

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NCEP is on it as it looks like more upper air data is being requested starting tomorrow...

SENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE

NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS CAMP SPRINGS MD

0145Z SUN JAN 16 2011

THE 00Z NAM MODEL HAS STARTED AND IS RUNNING ON TIME. OBSERVATIONS

AVAILABLE FOR NAM INGEST INCLUDED 14 ALASKAN...31 CANADIAN...71

CONUS...3 MEXICAN...AND 2 CARIBBEAN STATIONS.

00Z NAM RAOB RECAP...

YMO/71836 - PURGED TEMPS/MOISTURE 1017-1001 MB...TOO DRY.

CAR/72712 - PURGED WINDS 725-624 MB...ERRATIC DATA.

TKK/91334 - PURGED WINDS ABOVE 625 MB...TOO FAST.

BRO/72250 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 583-491 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

TBW/72210 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 776-760 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

YZT/71109 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 558-526 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

HYY/76692 - DELETED ENTIRE OBSERVATION...IDENTICAL TO 15/12Z.

TOP/72456 - TTAA/TTBB NOT IN FOR NAM.

MZT/76458 - 10159.

REMINDER...REQUEST FOR SPECIAL 18Z RELEASES ON 1/16 FROM SITES IN

TX...LA...OK...AND AR TO IMPROVE MODEL INITIALIZATION OF

INTERACTION BETWEEN APPROACHING NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAM

TROUGHS. SPECIFIC SITES INCLUDED ARE FWD, BRO, CRP, DRT, MAF, AMA,

EPZ, LCH, SHV, LIX, LZK, OUN, AND LMN.

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REMINDER...REQUEST FOR SPECIAL 18Z RELEASES ON 1/16 FROM SITES IN

TX...LA...OK...AND AR TO IMPROVE MODEL INITIALIZATION OF

INTERACTION BETWEEN APPROACHING NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAM

TROUGHS. SPECIFIC SITES INCLUDED ARE FWD, BRO, CRP, DRT, MAF, AMA,

EPZ, LCH, SHV, LIX, LZK, OUN, AND LMN.

Hi Mike,

Do you think that because NCEP is requesting upper air data for the NAM, that they are potentially considering it's warmer solution to be inaccurate?

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NCEP is on it as it looks like more upper air data is being requested starting tomorrow...

SENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE

NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS CAMP SPRINGS MD

0145Z SUN JAN 16 2011

THE 00Z NAM MODEL HAS STARTED AND IS RUNNING ON TIME. OBSERVATIONS

AVAILABLE FOR NAM INGEST INCLUDED 14 ALASKAN...31 CANADIAN...71

CONUS...3 MEXICAN...AND 2 CARIBBEAN STATIONS.

00Z NAM RAOB RECAP...

YMO/71836 - PURGED TEMPS/MOISTURE 1017-1001 MB...TOO DRY.

CAR/72712 - PURGED WINDS 725-624 MB...ERRATIC DATA.

TKK/91334 - PURGED WINDS ABOVE 625 MB...TOO FAST.

BRO/72250 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 583-491 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

TBW/72210 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 776-760 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

YZT/71109 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 558-526 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

HYY/76692 - DELETED ENTIRE OBSERVATION...IDENTICAL TO 15/12Z.

TOP/72456 - TTAA/TTBB NOT IN FOR NAM.

MZT/76458 - 10159.

REMINDER...REQUEST FOR SPECIAL 18Z RELEASES ON 1/16 FROM SITES IN

TX...LA...OK...AND AR TO IMPROVE MODEL INITIALIZATION OF

INTERACTION BETWEEN APPROACHING NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAM

TROUGHS. SPECIFIC SITES INCLUDED ARE FWD, BRO, CRP, DRT, MAF, AMA,

EPZ, LCH, SHV, LIX, LZK, OUN, AND LMN.

Nice to see you posting, Mike. Also thanks for the link to that briefing. Never saw those before. This ice threat is scaring me a bit for my commute to the Lehigh Valley on Tuesday... :yikes:

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NCEP is on it as it looks like more upper air data is being requested starting tomorrow...

SENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE

NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS CAMP SPRINGS MD

0145Z SUN JAN 16 2011

THE 00Z NAM MODEL HAS STARTED AND IS RUNNING ON TIME. OBSERVATIONS

AVAILABLE FOR NAM INGEST INCLUDED 14 ALASKAN...31 CANADIAN...71

CONUS...3 MEXICAN...AND 2 CARIBBEAN STATIONS.

00Z NAM RAOB RECAP...

YMO/71836 - PURGED TEMPS/MOISTURE 1017-1001 MB...TOO DRY.

CAR/72712 - PURGED WINDS 725-624 MB...ERRATIC DATA.

TKK/91334 - PURGED WINDS ABOVE 625 MB...TOO FAST.

BRO/72250 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 583-491 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

TBW/72210 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 776-760 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

YZT/71109 - PURGED TEMPS/DWPTS 558-526 MB...WET BULB EFFECT.

HYY/76692 - DELETED ENTIRE OBSERVATION...IDENTICAL TO 15/12Z.

TOP/72456 - TTAA/TTBB NOT IN FOR NAM.

MZT/76458 - 10159.

REMINDER...REQUEST FOR SPECIAL 18Z RELEASES ON 1/16 FROM SITES IN

TX...LA...OK...AND AR TO IMPROVE MODEL INITIALIZATION OF

INTERACTION BETWEEN APPROACHING NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAM

TROUGHS. SPECIFIC SITES INCLUDED ARE FWD, BRO, CRP, DRT, MAF, AMA,

EPZ, LCH, SHV, LIX, LZK, OUN, AND LMN.

How many sounding boxes are on hand at any one time for an upper-air station? I remember the one at OKX was ridden with yellow jackets.

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Nice to see you posting, Mike. Also thanks for the link to that briefing. Never saw those before. This ice threat is scaring me a bit for my commute to the Lehigh Valley on Tuesday... :yikes:

Good question, I'm thinking the same. Could be the GFS run showing the southern stream short wave being stronger and going on it's own with a coastal near the 40/70 area.

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through 57, 850's retreating from central ny to just North east of NYC.. surface has sig cad profile.. jersey all sub 32 down to central va..NC /va beach mod-heavy precip

EDIT.. looking at 2m surface maps, AC south is 32+...15miles inland

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63, heavy precip down by NC/OBX/// no SLP sig though... 32 line is straddling the big cities dc-NYC..if anything, philly looks to be above 32... light to mod precip dc-NYC.. 850's continue their retreat above NY and all of NH and VT are above freezin @ 850

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Hi Mike,

Do you think that because NCEP is requesting upper air data for the NAM, that they are potentially considering it's warmer solution to be inaccurate?

Not really sure if that is their reason for the extra upper air soundings, but probably mainly trying to capture the short wave energy a bit better to see if the models can resolve them a little better.

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69, 1012mb low off by VA beach.. heavy preicp down there,.. still mod rains into the aforementioned cities.. 850's starting to crash back into central NY. nice little freezing wedge showing up on the interior of PA and south central NY

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66, all the big cities DC-NYC go above freezing at the surface barely... pretty good ice event north and west from lehigh valley to poconos to alabany with light precip... Dc-philly mod-heavy rain, NYC mod rain

doesn't look like the big cities NYC and PHILLY included have to worry about frozen according to the NAM -- BUT its hard to believe the cold air that is coming in is just going to retreat at all levels so quickly especially with this thick snow cover -- stay tuned....

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doesn't look like the big cities NYC and PHILLY included have to worry about frozen according to the NAM -- BUT its hard to believe the cold air that is coming in is just going to retreat at all levels so quickly especially with this thick snow cover -- stay tuned....

between hours 60 and 69 , philly-dc would have some p-type issues

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Cold air can get scoured out easily changing things over quick. Seen it in the past. However with the cold air we've had in place and will have in place up until this storm, everything is frozen solid. Raising skin temps above freezing will probably take longer than modeled.

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between hours 60 and 69 , philly-dc would have some p-type issues

its an odd situation - since the precip makes it up to the dc philly first at night they might have issues with precip type - BUT the precip is struggling to reach NYC and there is going to be an extended period of virga to deal with in this situation because of the dry air mass being introduced tomorrow into monday night....

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Based on what the NAM is showing, I don't see NW NJ getting above freezing until the precip ends. Look like a nice ice storm for NW NJ. The GFS has been looking even worse than this. I have seen situations like this here too many times where it is supposed to get above freezing but somehow it never does until the precip ends. It usually sits around 31 degrees until it is over.

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its an odd situation - since the precip makes it up to the dc philly first at night they might have issues with precip type - BUT the precip is struggling to reach NYC and there is going to be an extended period of virga to deal with in this situation because of the dry air mass being introduced tomorrow into monday night....

The NAM is too slow, we'll see it probably come out faster with this in the next day and of course faster in this storm means more frozen...this is as I posted earlier looking more like a 1 to maybe 2 inches of snow early and the ZR inland RA at the coast, the system approaches more from an angle of due south as opposed to SW which in part causes it to arrive later and the high to get more out of position than models were showing 2-3 days ago....the NAM on this run took a step towards a less amped solution and more to the GFS track offshore....for those who want to hold on to their snowpack at this point you honestly want this thing to mainly be a miss as much as possible.

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