Confuzzled Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 SUMMARY: 8-1 in Waterbury, CT with 18" totalling 2.25 inches of precipitable water. Anyone else punch a core sample and measure it? The snow I shoveled was moderately heavy as well. My back is proof of this. But 2.25" of liquid water equivlent seems like a lot. At any rate, my snow board was only 10-15 feet from the house but it was 22 degrees or so all night... INFO: I had 12 inches on the snow board and the cylindrical can I used to take the sample had just under 1.5 inches of liquid water in it. I approximated the next 6 inches of snow fall I received from the cleaned board as being the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 My first 6hr sample was 6.2" with 0.60" w.e. I'll do another one at 2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confuzzled Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I actually did the arithmetic it instead of being lazy, was 1 and 3/8 inches for 12 inches of snow. Ratio is 8.7 to 1 which is 2.1" w.e..... So your ratio is about 10:1 and mine is almost 9:1. It seems like the total pcp the nam was putting out verified for me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I actually did the arithmetic it instead of being lazy, was 1 and 3/8 inches for 12 inches of snow. Ratio is 8.7 to 1 which is 2.1" w.e..... So your ratio is about 10:1 and mine is almost 9:1. It seems like the total pcp the nam was putting out verified for me at least. 2nd core sample is 13.0" new / 0.84" water equiv.Event total so far is 19.2" new / 1.44" w.e. Mesobanding FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 12.5:1 here. I know I'm not in New England, but I figured I could add something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collinsville Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 SUMMARY: 8-1 in Waterbury, CT with 18" totalling 2.25 inches of precipitable water. Anyone else punch a core sample and measure it? The snow I shoveled was moderately heavy as well. My back is proof of this. But 2.25" of liquid water equivlent seems like a lot. At any rate, my snow board was only 10-15 feet from the house but it was 22 degrees or so all night... INFO: I had 12 inches on the snow board and the cylindrical can I used to take the sample had just under 1.5 inches of liquid water in it. I approximated the next 6 inches of snow fall I received from the cleaned board as being the same. Seems way too high with the liquid equivalent. I had 16.7" snow with 1.39" liquid. 12:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 At 4:30 my 6.0" had 0.59" LE, which included a trace of zr that fell perhaps 4 hr before the snow began. (at 8:30 AM here) Still moderate snow and upper 20s here, very small flakes, as has been the case from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confuzzled Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 12.5:1 here. I know I'm not in New England, but I figured I could add something. Thanks Seems way too high with the liquid equivalent. I had 16.7" snow with 1.39" liquid. 12:1 Yeah, that is kind of why I created this thread. I did exactly what I was supposed too though... I feel like I am off by .5 w.e. but I'll try it again next storm Throughout the beginning of the event the snow almost felt like frozen mist was hitting me. I don't know if that was because the snow was so cold (Tsfc = 22) and small or there was some water in there. The profile indicates the ice nuclei should have eaten up all the supercooled water, however. But a few areas somewhat close to me had snow in the upper 20s which probably indicates closer to 2" w.e. than 1.5 unless those intense bands generally have much higher snow ratios (from stronger omega)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks Yeah, that is kind of why I created this thread. I did exactly what I was supposed too though... I feel like I am off by .5 w.e. but I'll try it again next storm Throughout the beginning of the event the snow almost felt like frozen mist was hitting me. I don't know if that was because the snow was so cold (Tsfc = 22) and small or there was some water in there. The profile indicates the ice nuclei should have eaten up all the supercooled water, however. But a few areas somewhat close to me had snow in the upper 20s which probably indicates closer to 2" w.e. than 1.5 unless those intense bands generally have much higher snow ratios (from stronger omega)? The beginning of the event was a front end thump. Those tend to be lower ratio snows. Notice mine was closer to 10:1 as was tamarack's in ME. Then we got into the mesoscale banding with strong lift in the dendritic growth zone with deep layer moisture. That's when the monster flakes fell and ratios improved. The problem (hate to call this a problem because too much snow is never a problem ) is that there was so much snow that it will just compact on itself as more and more accumulates. That's why I like clearing every 6 hours if you can because it's almost as if you penalize yourself the more you get otherwise. You just need to be careful in strong winds because you don't want your measuring area to be contaminated by drifting snow that has already fallen.What are you using for a gauge? I'd recommend the Stratus rain gauge for snow cores. If you google that you'll find a lot of places to purchase them. They're relatively inexpensive (~$25-30 I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larwx Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Measured 17 inches even from today's snow event. I captured all the snow in my gauge and melted down to 1.69". Got up to 29 degrees here at 3AM this morning and temps have been in the mid to upper 20s ever since. All powdery snow here and the 10 to 1 ratio worked out well here on this event. Also kudos to the NAM on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Had 1.0" of 20:1 fluff (nice dendrites, but not all that many) so that my 9 PM total is 7.0" with 0.64" LE. Still tossing those feathers outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collinsville Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 What are you using for a gauge? I'd recommend the Stratus rain gauge for snow cores. If you google that you'll find a lot of places to purchase them. They're relatively inexpensive (~$25-30 I think). That's the one I've been using for 10 years now One time back in 02-03 with about 8" of snow I had the gauge in hand and couldn't find the snow board. Took one more step and whoosh!! I stepped right on the board, feet flew forward and landed on my back. That was the day I learned to put out 2 boards and use a marker, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Measured 17 inches even from today's snow event. I captured all the snow in my gauge and melted down to 1.69". Got up to 29 degrees here at 3AM this morning and temps have been in the mid to upper 20s ever since. All powdery snow here and the 10 to 1 ratio worked out well here on this event. Also kudos to the NAM on this one. How is a 10:1 ratio powdery snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's the one I've been using for 10 years now One time back in 02-03 with about 8" of snow I had the gauge in hand and couldn't find the snow board. Took one more step and whoosh!! I stepped right on the board, feet flew forward and landed on my back. That was the day I learned to put out 2 boards and use a marker, lol. Snow boards can be EXTREMELY slippery when you don't see them! Some people use a red flag to mark them, like the cities do with the fire hydrants, so they don't get plowed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenson Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Ended up with 8" and 0.55" LE. If my math is right, that brings me to a 14.54:1 ratio..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confuzzled Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 The beginning of the event was a front end thump. Those tend to be lower ratio snows. Notice mine was closer to 10:1 as was tamarack's in ME. Then we got into the mesoscale banding with strong lift in the dendritic growth zone with deep layer moisture. That's when the monster flakes fell and ratios improved. The problem (hate to call this a problem because too much snow is never a problem ) is that there was so much snow that it will just compact on itself as more and more accumulates. That's why I like clearing every 6 hours if you can because it's almost as if you penalize yourself the more you get otherwise. You just need to be careful in strong winds because you don't want your measuring area to be contaminated by drifting snow that has already fallen. What are you using for a gauge? I'd recommend the Stratus rain gauge for snow cores. If you google that you'll find a lot of places to purchase them. They're relatively inexpensive (~$25-30 I think). Thanks for the info. I probably should have measured the last 6-7 inches then instead of approximating it to the first 12". Now I know. This would lower my w.e. some and make it more reasonable. I still would have received over 1.5" of w.e. from this event though... My gauge was a cylindrical can and a ruler. I measured the depth on the snow board at 12" and then I put the can on the top of the snow and punched it down to the board taking a "core sample". All the snow was trapped in the can. It melted in the house and I measured its height at 1 3/8". The equipment isn't very fancy but I can't see any flaws in using it. How does that guage work when there is a lot of wind? I thought those things become inaccurate? I remember disputed totals from the wxchallenge due to wind and pcp amounts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collinsville Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 How does that guage work when there is a lot of wind? I thought those things become inaccurate? I remember disputed totals from the wxchallenge due to wind and pcp amounts... You don't leave the gauge out for snow to fall into, that won't work to well unless there's no wind and a wet snow. You take the outer bucket portion and stuff that into the snow with a snow board below. Let the sample melt, then pour the water into the inner measuring tube which is marked in hundreds of an inch from .01 to 1.00. If you don't want to wait for it to melt you can put hot water into the measuring tube write that amount down then pour it into the snow to melt it (you may well have to add more than one tube full of hot water to fully melt the snow). After its all melted you measure all of it out and subtract the added hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confuzzled Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 You don't leave the gauge out for snow to fall into, that won't work to well unless there's no wind and a wet snow. You take the outer bucket portion and stuff that into the snow with a snow board below. Let the sample melt, then pour the water into the inner measuring tube which is marked in hundreds of an inch from .01 to 1.00. If you don't want to wait for it to melt you can put hot water into the measuring tube write that amount down then pour it into the snow to melt it (you may well have to add more than one tube full of hot water to fully melt the snow). After its all melted you measure all of it out and subtract the added hot water. That is essentially what I did then, with a can and a ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 How is a 10:1 ratio powdery snow? Huh? 10:1 doesn't mean the snow has to be wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larwx Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 How is a 10:1 ratio powdery snow? There are a number of weather variables that need to be met in order to get close to the 10 to 1 snow to liquid ratio.http://www.hpc.ncep....w2a/tsld026.htm One major one is a column of air not far from the 0 degree Celsius mark. Taking the 12 Z soundings from ALB and GYX which were both fairly isothermal to 700 mb +or-, and adjusting them southward for my location would give readings in the 26-29 degree range which I had during storm. This is not all that far from 0 and my location here was not that far from the 0 degree isotherm as heavy wet snow fell along the eastern MA coast for much of the storm. Secondly, there was the lack of any deep cold air in the region which is conducive to higher ratios. The storm track was close enough yet mostly over ocean waters with very high amounts of moisture and energy which usually promotes lower ratios. Finally, we had high winds here with this storm which no doubt caused snowflake fracture and loss of structure. Perhaps in this age of political correctness it was inappropriate to use the word "powdery" in describing the snow texture here at my location. Fortunately, I did eliminate the words fluffy, light, and dry before posting. Seriously, my point is that you can have a 10 to 1 ratio with snow that has a powdery texture, but you do need the higher end factors of temperature, moisture, and wind. This past storm on January 12th met all three factors here IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineJayhawk Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Late to the party here but PWM had 13.0" of snow with a LE of 0.73". That's nearly an 18:1 ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Late to the party here but PWM had 13.0" of snow with a LE of 0.73". That's nearly an 18:1 ratio. This thread is for snow core snobs though. Not the ASOS garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineJayhawk Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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