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Haha! I thought you were reading books tonight or something?! :o. I'm watching Die Hard With a Vengance. Good movie to kill time while awaiting the 0Zs.

I am, and doing some math refresh also... The wife is using the MBP atm, so I am forced on the PC, without the gif software to make a loop, but if folks look at the 0z NAM at 72hrs compared to the 18 and 12z runs, all valid 0z Saturday, there is a sig trend towards a deeper backside wave. The 12z run had the 552 dm isohypse (line of equal geopotential height) just clipping northeast KS, the 18z run took that to northeast OK, and the 0z run now has it firmly entrenched in OK. To put this into perspective, the 0z NAM at 84 hrs has the 540 and 546 dm isohypses in extreme southern KY and southern TN respectively, while the 12z European had 540 dm heights into central AL/MS, and 546 almost touching Mobile Bay at this time, big difference. But the trend in the NAM is evident as the beginning stages of this potential event start to come into it's "box."

0z 72 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/00/images/nam_500_072m.gif

18z 78 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/18/images/nam_500_078m.gif

12z 84 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/images/nam_500_084m.gif

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I am, and doing some math refresh also... The wife is using the MPB atm, so I am forced on the PC, without the gif software to make a loop, but if folks look at the 0z NAM at 72hrs compared to the 18 and 12z runs, all valid 0z Saturday, there is a sig trend towards a deeper backside wave. The 12z run had the 552 dm isohypse (line of equal geopotential height) just clipping northeast KS, the 18z run took that to northeast OK, and the 0z run now has it firmly entrenched in OK. To put this into perspective, the 0z NAM at 84 hrs has the 540 and 546 dm isohypses in extreme southern KY and southern TN respectively, while the 12z European had 540 dm heights into central AL/MS, and 546 almost touching Mobile Bay at this time, big difference. But the trend in the NAM is evident as the beginning stages of this potential event start to come into it's "box."

0z 72 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/00/images/nam_500_072m.gif

18z 78 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/18/images/nam_500_078m.gif

12z 84 http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/images/nam_500_084m.gif

Very interesting. So you're saying there's a chance! It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. You have a better chance than me of seeing anything out of this. I hope we continue to see things trend favorably anyway... If not, there's always next week. Enjoy the math. I always hated math.

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besides the the very outside possibility for us immediate coastal folks on saturday their really isnt anything on the table. if trends continue things will liven up tomorrow I imagine

Ok thanks. I mostly lurk here and enjoy reading everyone's opinions and interpretations of the models and what's going on. Most people get mad or don't post when it doesn't affect TBY which is wrong IMO. I'm just trying to learn this stuff a little at a time and every post helps even if it does not directly effect me.

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Very interesting. So you're saying there's a chance! It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. You have a better chance than me of seeing anything out of this. I hope we continue to see things trend favorably anyway... If not, there's always next week. Enjoy the math. I always hated math.

Even if we do get a coastal graze, we are too far inland even here at PGV for this type of track, as we want something across N FL-S GA. Coastal areas do much better in this setup with development off the east coast of FL, the farther east you go the more QPF, and that is given we do actually see a passage close enough to sling some moisture back, which is in doubt. In order for this to be a sig storm here in the east, we need the trough to go Neg over the FL panhandle or there roundabouts, the 12z Euro went neg off the SE coast, FL/GA, that is too far east for us and would kick it ots. That is a step though in the right direction as the 12z run from yesterday did not take on a neg tilt, rather neutral off the SE coast, baby steps... Most likely scenario is we see the Euro meet the other guidance in the middle, which would imply too far offshore for anything. However, we are starting to see a general trend towards the EC, but the question is does the EC trend also, and towards a less favorable solution. :popcorn:

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In order for this to be a sig storm here in the east, we need the trough to go Neg over the FL panhandle or there roundabouts, the 12z Euro went neg off the SE coast, FL/GA, that is too far east for us and would kick it ots. That is a step though in the right direction as the 12z run from yesterday did not take on a neg tilt, rather neutral off the SE coast, baby steps...

If you guys down east don't bring this one home, it won't be from a lack of effort!

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I'm laughing at the 00z GFS because the 500mb pattern looks great... yet it spits out some sort of garbage solution at the surface. It really honestly doesn't know what to do with the multiple short-waves in the western US. I'm pretty sure any pro met can tell you this setup looks much better than what the GFS is outputting beyond that time.

35mpr87.gif

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A little sad to see limited blocking @ 150HR on the GFS. Healthy gulf system with trailing vort.

See map above... we have plenty of blocking... even at 192 hours, this is a classic setup for a Southeast Special... pay much more attention to how the 500mb fields look than the surface plots.

2dvtsop.gif

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I'm laughing at the 00z GFS because the 500mb pattern looks great... yet it spits out some sort of garbage solution at the surface. It really honestly doesn't know what to do with the multiple short-waves in the western US. I'm pretty sure any pro met can tell you this setup looks much better than what the GFS is outputting beyond that time.

See map above... we have plenty of blocking... even at 192 hours, this is a classic setup for a Southeast Special... pay much more attention to how the 500mb fields look than the surface plots.

Those are good points you brought up Phil. The 5H feature looks terrific for something interesting for the SE, yet the GFS fails to match this with the surface data output. Something tells me that this may take a while before it corrects this (if it ever does). Reminds me of how the NAM was having trouble of matching its 700mb/omega feature with the 850 plots for our past winter event at one point IIRC.

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The Canadian is handling the waves quite favorably...sending the 1st vort max into central Texas, then east into central / northern Alabama, and keeping it largely intact through the trip....whereas the GFS sends the vort max into Texas, but completely washes it out as it moves NE into Arkansas with a deeping vort coming in behind it. The Canadian solution is more robust and provides more cooling in the upper levels to support snow on the northern portion of the precip shield.

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The Canadian is handling the waves quite favorably...sending the 1st vort max into central Texas, then east into central / northern Alabama, and keeping it largely intact through the trip....whereas the GFS sends the vort max into Texas, but completely washes it out as it moves NE into Arkansas with a deeping vort coming in behind it. The Canadian solution is more robust and provides more cooling in the upper levels to support snow on the northern portion of the precip shield.

This goes to prove once again that the shortwaves are all over the place and the models cannot get a clue on them. One thing for certain from tonights runs are they are showing colder solutions and if that can stay consistent, then we will see one of those shortwaves reel in a winter storm for a widespread area of the SE. Like Cheez aluded to, as well as Foothills, next week should be interesting.

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shortwaves are all over the place

I have mentioned this fact over the past couple days in that the Euro H5 panels looked like a fireworks show for the duration of the run, 0-240 hrs, with a literal buffet of parcels coming into play and interacting. Even with the backside wave behind the Friday system that may have some coastal potential, one has to question where that is currently, the Bering Sea... Data coverage is sparse, and as to the ingest, maybe over Russia that put the Euro on to this. ECMWF initialization information is proprietary in nature, compared to NCEP which is of public record. Most of the basis for why the Euro is such a good model revolves around how well the initialization is, in addition to the higher resolution, who knows, maybe they have a hook up on a crab boat off AK atm we do not know about, or connection in the USSR necep does not have.

Not much change through 72 hrs, looks like a non-event for NE by their standards, 1-3", 2-4, maybe...

110119061448304252000.gif

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Euro still has the Carolina Coastal but its quick and more progressive. Some snow, then the texas sharp wave, with a strenghtening high over the Lakes. Also another strong s/w in southern Canada between 120 and 126. Snow in Dallas and southern Ok. Its overspreading Ark and lower Misss. Valley at 132. Snow.

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964 mb low in eastern Canada at 144, with a strong damming high In New York, and a gulf low spreading snow across the Deep South, up to Atlanta and southern TN. Theres a strong northern Plains low thats about to absorb the southern Low it appears. All in all, it still has the threat for the South.

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