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NYC/PHL Jan 11-14 Threat Potential Part 3


am19psu

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gfs long range 300+ looks like heaven ///now back to your regulary scheduled program..

Any reason why the NAM isn't shearing out the energy and keeping it more consolidated compared the GFS? is its high res creating some type of feedback? j/w and any info would help

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sounds like a decent compromise. I honestly don't see the surface low hugging the coast like some of the NAM runs had.

It's definitely amongst the possible solutions if you ask me. The H5 chart is screaming for major amplification if the PVA can eject north/northeast as the NAM indicates. The NAM closes off the H5 low about 4-6 hours faster than most guidance which helps to back the H5 flow on the east coast. You can also argue the GFS and GGEM trended in this direction by backing the heights along the coast on tonight's 00z runs.

Would I bet my money on the NAM? No...but I think it's on the western envelope of possibilities.

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great post. plus, Upton has been throwing out the op in favor of the ensembles, and using a blend of them, in addition to the Euro/nam/rgem for their reasoning. i think we're still in for a solid 6-12 event (at least), with heavy snows during the wed AM rush...

When the GFS depiction aloft looks stronger and more amplified yet the sfc solution isn't changed at all, it's a red flag to me.

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posted in the general forum about 30 minutes ago....

Some evening thoughts:

1) Right now, given the good run-to-run continuity of the ECMWF and the storm's somewhat overperforming down south, I favor a compromise between the 0z NAM and GFS. That means 6" or greater snows from Philadelphia north and eastward. New York, Boston, Worcester, and Hartford are among the cities that will likely see 6"-12" (and possibly more). This coming event will be a major reason I believe NYC and BOS will likely pick up 10" or more snow this month. Unfortunately, at this time, cities such as Ottawa and Montreal likely won't receive a significant impact (probably less than 2 centimeters).

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Our thinking here is 6 to12 inches for the Newark Metro area, I also think mixing issues may get to the NYC Metro area early on, Would not be shocked for some sleet or Snow Pellets mix in before midnight. end game also would not be shocked to see another blizzard warning issued for some of us. I also think with any banding some areas may go north of 12 inches and this storm does not end in the morning like some indicate but goes into the afternoon hours on Wednesday, On a side note been doing this a long time don't recall to many of these real snowy periods, only happen I think a couple of times in the last 20 or 30 years to get two real biggies inside of 3 weeks. So far Harrison NJ has 27.7 for the season our normal is 28 inches, we said to some ( not on this board ) to expect above average snowfall and above average temperature for the winter at least will have one right going into this weekend and I think there will be a pattern change down the road so I think we should not get use to the snowy pattern but enjoy it while it last.

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posted in the general forum about 30 minutes ago....

While I respect Don very much... one thing I feel the need to point out is that what is going on down south at the moment is isn't what we need to focus on. Its the system coming in from the west. That's what makes or breaks the storm... If what was happening down south was really important, it would be forecast to snow Monday night instead of Tuesday night, and this would be a Miller A instead of a B.

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While I respect Don very much... one thing I feel the need to point out is that what is going on down south at the moment is isn't what we need to focus on. Its the system coming in from the west. That's what makes or breaks the storm... If what was happening down south was really important, it would be forecast to snow Monday night instead of Tuesday night, and this would be a Miller A instead of a B.

Agree, as the main feature to drive all of this for us is the upper low currently in the Plains.

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Both the Hi-Res NMM and ARW from this evening are closing the H5 low off a few hours faster than the GFS and more similarly to the NAM. Really just perplexing how the higher resolution models along with the SREF's are so wrapped up..especially since the GFS and GGEM trended in that directly slowly tonight.

hrw-nmm_eus_048_500_vort_ht.gif

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I think its important to keep in mind that almost every model at one point and time..the exceptions being the GFS/UKMET ..have actually showed a much more potent storm. One run of the 00z GGEM actually had the low pressure on the coast of Southern NJ and then on top of NYC. On January 3 (ECM long range I know) actually showed this as a HECS. The NOGAPS for like ten runs in a row showed a track very similar to what the NAM is showing now.

The NOGAPS tonight at 48 hrs is more west then what the GFS is at 48 hrs...and even though it still ends up south and east its actually slightly west of its 18 Z run...

NAM has the back up of the 21 SREFS which HPC was using earlier today...

The ECM means may be about 75 miles or so further east but that is still pretty close to the 00z NAM....

Perhaps the high resolution of the NAM is what is making the difference between it and the GFS. After all the GGEM trended back west and better at H 5. Not so sure if i would just dismiss the NAM because it stands in contrast...

At one point the GFS stood in contrast on the Boxing Day Blizzard (different set up yes i know) and was even put down to all kinds of errors...but then what happened? Other models started going towards it at the end...

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While I respect Don very much... one thing I feel the need to point out is that what is going on down south at the moment is isn't what we need to focus on. Its the system coming in from the west. That's what makes or breaks the storm... If what was happening down south was really important, it would be forecast to snow Monday night instead of Tuesday night, and this would be a Miller A instead of a B.

while ur right in some aspects. from looking at this, the sfc low now in the gulf never fades. it re-organizes itself and then gets help from the upper low over the plains.

hopefully link works:

My link

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Both the Hi-Res NMM and ARW from this evening are closing the H5 low off a few hours faster than the GFS and more similarly to the NAM. Really just perplexing how the higher resolution models along with the SREF's are so wrapped up..especially since the GFS and GGEM trended in that directly slowly tonight.

hrw-nmm_eus_048_500_vort_ht.gif

Where did you get it at already? I am only at hr 3 on Ncep.

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Both the Hi-Res NMM and ARW from this evening are closing the H5 low off a few hours faster than the GFS and more similarly to the NAM. Really just perplexing how the higher resolution models along with the SREF's are so wrapped up..especially since the GFS and GGEM trended in that directly slowly tonight.

I think the end result will fall in between what the NAM and GFS/ECMWF solutions show. It would be rather interesting though if the NAM ended up being right, however I think it is still to wrapped up.

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I think the end result will fall in between what the NAM and GFS/ECMWF solutions show. It would be rather interesting though if the NAM ended up being right, however I think it is still to wrapped up.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. That seems to fall reasonably inline with the ECMWF Ens mean from 12z.

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while ur right in some aspects. from looking at this, the sfc low now in the gulf never fades. it re-organizes itself and then gets help from the upper low over the plains.

hopefully link works:

My link

While you are correct at the surface, as most have pointed out, its not the surface which *really* matters. Its essentially like your average Miller B where the disturbance jumps to the coast and redevelops on a preexisting baroclinic zone.

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That's nice, but I'm pretty sure they did that with the 12/19 non-event too.

It seems pretty amazing IMO that all the high resolution models thus far are pretty much in the same camp.

Its not a matter of "being nice" it could be a matter of resolution in the models..

Time will tell I guess with the ECM ....being its a high resolution model I am looking for it to lean more in the camp of the other high res models then the GFS...

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