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Midwest Thanksgiving Storm...


Powerball

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AFD from GRB...thinking it will go further N & W than current runs.

ONE THING IS FAIRLY CERTAIN FOR NEXT WEEK...THERE WILL BE A POTENT

STORM AROUND THANKSGIVING DAY. WHEN AND WHERE AND WHAT TYPE OF

PRECIPITATION THAT WILL FALL ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA IS VERY

UNCERTAIN AT THIS TIME. PER DISCUSSION WITH SHORT TERM FORECASTER...

IT IS BELIEVED THAT THE TRACK WILL END UP FURTHER NORTH AND WEST

OF THE MODEL RUNS THIS AFTERNOON BASED ON CLIMATOLOGY. ALSO

LOOKING AT THE MODEL 850MB THERMAL PROFILES...THE 850MB THERMAL

GRADIENT WOULD ALSO SUPPORT THIS THEORY. WILL HAVE TOKEN POPS IN

FOR WEDNESDAY THINKING THAT SOME PRECIPITATION WILL BREAK OUT

AHEAD OF MAIN SYSTEM...THEN MAIN SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE AREA

THANKSGIVING DAY INTO FRIDAY. NEW ECMWF IS OFF THE CHARTS WITH

969MB LOW FRIDAY AFTERNOON OVER NORTHERN LOWER MICHIGAN. NOT SURE

I CAN BUY THAT... BUT DO THINK A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL STORM WILL

AFFECT THE AREA. STAY TUNED FOR UPDATES ON THIS POTENTIAL WINTER

STORM FOR THE WESTERN LAKES.

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Despite the GGEM going out to only 144 hrs, you can see where it wants to go beyond that time frame. It is not quite as positively tilted as the Euro, but still has energy diving down the backside of the trough at 500. So expect some continued digging. For the most part that trough depicted is ready to eject, so I would buy a more westerly low track verbatim.

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Hard to tell why with the PSU maps, but the GGEM really continues to dump energy down the backside. It digs at least another 24 hours, with the low pressure really getting going in the Southern Plains compared to a low already in the Ohio Valley/Great Lakes on the Euro.

168-174 is good for me. I think everything will end up being farther north though.

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AFD from GRB...thinking it will go further N & W than current runs.

ONE THING IS FAIRLY CERTAIN FOR NEXT WEEK...THERE WILL BE A POTENT

STORM AROUND THANKSGIVING DAY. WHEN AND WHERE AND WHAT TYPE OF

PRECIPITATION THAT WILL FALL ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA IS VERY

UNCERTAIN AT THIS TIME. PER DISCUSSION WITH SHORT TERM FORECASTER...

IT IS BELIEVED THAT THE TRACK WILL END UP FURTHER NORTH AND WEST

OF THE MODEL RUNS THIS AFTERNOON BASED ON CLIMATOLOGY. ALSO

LOOKING AT THE MODEL 850MB THERMAL PROFILES...THE 850MB THERMAL

GRADIENT WOULD ALSO SUPPORT THIS THEORY. WILL HAVE TOKEN POPS IN

FOR WEDNESDAY THINKING THAT SOME PRECIPITATION WILL BREAK OUT

AHEAD OF MAIN SYSTEM...THEN MAIN SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE AREA

THANKSGIVING DAY INTO FRIDAY. NEW ECMWF IS OFF THE CHARTS WITH

969MB LOW FRIDAY AFTERNOON OVER NORTHERN LOWER MICHIGAN. NOT SURE

I CAN BUY THAT... BUT DO THINK A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL STORM WILL

AFFECT THE AREA. STAY TUNED FOR UPDATES ON THIS POTENTIAL WINTER

STORM FOR THE WESTERN LAKES.

I have been thinking the same thing with the west shift that tends to happen. This is going to be an exciting few days coming up.

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Despite the GGEM going out to only 144 hrs, you can see where it wants to go beyond that time frame. It is not quite as positively tilted as the Euro, but still has energy diving down the backside of the trough at 500. So expect some continued digging. For the most part that trough depicted is ready to eject, so I would buy a more westerly low track verbatim.

The GGEM solution is a bit odd.

The track of the T-day storm is of course going to be somewhat dependent on where the previous system lays out the boundary. Of course, if it's as far south and strong as the EURO depicts, then there's probably going to be some serious track inconsistencies right up until about 48-72 hours before the event. The GGEM's solution is based around the assumption that that system will not be very strong, and the resultant surge of CAA doesn't make it as far. We're left with a rather broad thermal ribbon, and when that big trough comes in around 150+ (via PSU ewall site), it tries forcing 2 lows and has little problem flinging that front way north. What's odd is that the primary low is the southern one, but it doesn't really take over until it gets all the way to the Lakes. You would think one or the other would "win" the forcing game after that much time and become the dominant circulation much sooner. Taking a look at the Vort and thermal fields, the southern low should definitely be favored, so I'm not sure why that northern low would be hanging around so long. Jet circulation/left front quadrant forcing, maybe? I don't have a jet stream level chart of the GGEM unfortunately.

This dual low thing is a bit interesting because the Euro was trying to do the same thing at 168 hr, but I'm not convinced that feature is going to be anything more than an inverted trough in the end.

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The GGEM solution is a bit odd.

The track of the T-day storm is of course going to be somewhat dependent on where the previous system lays out the boundary. Of course, if it's as far south and strong as the EURO depicts, then there's probably going to be some serious track inconsistencies right up until about 48-72 hours before the event. The GGEM's solution is based around the assumption that that system will not be very strong, and the resultant surge of CAA doesn't make it as far. We're left with a rather broad thermal ribbon, and when that big trough comes in around 150+ (via PSU ewall site), it tries forcing 2 lows and has little problem flinging that front way north. What's odd is that the primary low is the southern one, but it doesn't really take over until it gets all the way to the Lakes. You would think one or the other would "win" the forcing game after that much time and become the dominant circulation much sooner. Taking a look at the Vort and thermal fields, the southern low should definitely be favored, so I'm not sure why that northern low would be hanging around so long. Jet circulation/left front quadrant forcing, maybe? I don't have a jet stream level chart of the GGEM unfortunately.

This dual low thing is a bit interesting because the Euro was trying to do the same thing at 168 hr, but I'm not convinced that feature is going to be anything more than an inverted trough in the end.

Conceptually speaking, that type of trough position you would think a southern, Panhandle hooker, would be a more favored low track. And of course, as you mentioned, everything depends on where, when and how deep the cold air intrusion is ahead of the trough.

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Conceptually speaking, that type of trough position you would think a southern, Panhandle hooker, would be a more favored low track. And of course, as you mentioned, everything depends on where, when and how deep the cold air intrusion is ahead of the trough.

Can you explain the cold air's impact in all of this please.

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Can you explain the cold air's impact in all of this please.

The baroclinic zone (boundary of warm/cold air) is going to be the path the low pressure wants to take. Where that sets up vs. where the models want to set it up is going to be the main thing to watch. With the energy coming down with the trough, there will be a significant storm of some sort in this time frame. So the question is really where (and when for those with travel plans ;)).

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