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NYC/PHL Potential Jan 11-14 Event Discussion Part Two


NickD2011

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I think i can clear up why the public feels this will be a larger or stronger storm and accumulate to 30 inches.

Most local forecasters have been saying "significant", 'large" and "substantial" in describing the storm potential, and not placing amounts out yet.

You take what happened on christmas weekend, and place that in the mind of the public, who may not be familiar with the dynamics, and this is what they see.

It would be considered illogical reasoning here as someone might say since it happened, it will happen again, however, many people do not even know what the models are, and how they work.

The NWS should do some public outreach and educate people in this, perhaps it could be included in the educational programs, or required at colleges?

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From Albany Discussion:

THE NEXT SYSTEM...LOOKS TO BE A PHASING OF THE CURRENT GULF COAST

SYSTEM...AND NORTHERN STREAM ENERGY CURRENTLY AROUND THE NORTHERN

ROCKIES. SOURCES OF GUIDANCE AND ENSEMBLES IN UNUSUALLY GOOD

AGREEMENT ON THE PREDICTED LARGE SCALE EVOLUTION OF THE SYSTEM.

GULF COAST SYSTEM QUITE DYNAMIC NOW...BUT GUIDANCE CONSENSUS

SUGGESTS DEAMPLIFICATION AND WEAKENING AS IT TRACKS TOWARD THE

COASTAL CAROLINAS. HOWEVER...THE ATMOSPHERIC DEEP MOISTURE AND

POTENTIAL VORTICITY FOOTPRINT WILL STILL EXIST...LIKE A FUSE THAT

JUST NEEDS TO BE RE-LIT. THE LOW LEVEL FEATURE IS PREDICTED TO

EMERGE OFF THE CAROLINAS...WITH THE GULF STREAM AND THERMAL

GRADIENT BAROCLINICITY LIGHTING THE FUSE. THE NORTHERN STREAM

UPPER ENERGY AND DYNAMICS COULD SUPPORT SOME ENSUING CONVECTIVE

FIREWORKS AND THE SNOW BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR AS THE STORM DEVELOPS

OFF THE CAROLINAS AND MID ATLANTIC COAST. O.K. THAT MIGHT HAVE

BEEN TOO POETIC...BUT SOME HINTS AT CONVECTIVE CHARACTER TO SYSTEM

WITH SOME DOWNSTREAM UPPER RIDGING...THAT COULD STEER THE SYSTEM

ALONG THE MORE NORTHWESTERN PREDICTED TRACKS IN GUIDANCE.

WIND ANOMALIES AT 850 HPA SUGGEST BETTER THAN AVERAGE MOISTURE

CONVERGENCE AND ADVECION OFF ATLANTIC...BUT CLOSED UPPER LOW DOES

LOOK PROGRESSIVE...NOT AN UPPER CUT OFF...EVIDENT IN 250 HPA WIND

ANOMALIES. HOWEVER...BOUNDARY LAYER FRONTOGENESIS IMPRESSIVE...AND

BEST UPWARD VERTICAL MOTION SHOULD CUT THROUGH THE DENDRITIC -12C

TO -18C GROWTH ZONE IN A RELATIVELY DECENT LAYER OF THE

ATMOSPHERE. MESOSCALE BANDING WILL HAVE TO BE MONITORED...AS IT IS

TOO EARLY TO BE SPECIFIC ON WHERE ENHANCED SNOWFALL RATES OF >2"+

PER HOUR COULD SET UP. BIGGEST SNOWS COULD BE SOUTHERN NY INTO

SOUTHERN AND CENTRAL/EASTERN NEW ENGLAND...OR COULD SHIFT A BIT

WEST TOWARD THE BERKSHIRES...EASTERN NY AND SOUTHERN VT...WE JUST

HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.

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The 18z GFS is much closer to developing the CCB towards the entire area. It's weakened the primary and moved the coastal low further northwest. This is a result of the earlier closed upper level low and more amplification ahead of the feature.

No doubt about it and make no mistake, tonight's 00z model runs are going to be huge for this system. A whole bunch of questions should be answered.

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:thumbsup::lmao::tomato: Just had to quote this one for posterity.

Mods - Sorry to go off topic while in storm mode but I didn't want to lose this.

From Albany Discussion:

GULF COAST SYSTEM QUITE DYNAMIC NOW...BUT GUIDANCE CONSENSUS

SUGGESTS DEAMPLIFICATION AND WEAKENING AS IT TRACKS TOWARD THE

COASTAL CAROLINAS. HOWEVER...THE ATMOSPHERIC DEEP MOISTURE AND

POTENTIAL VORTICITY FOOTPRINT WILL STILL EXIST...LIKE A FUSE THAT

JUST NEEDS TO BE RE-LIT. THE LOW LEVEL FEATURE IS PREDICTED TO

EMERGE OFF THE CAROLINAS...WITH THE GULF STREAM AND THERMAL

GRADIENT BAROCLINICITY LIGHTING THE FUSE. THE NORTHERN STREAM

UPPER ENERGY AND DYNAMICS COULD SUPPORT SOME ENSUING CONVECTIVE

FIREWORKS AND THE SNOW BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR AS THE STORM DEVELOPS

OFF THE CAROLINAS AND MID ATLANTIC COAST. O.K. THAT MIGHT HAVE

BEEN TOO POETIC...BUT SOME HINTS AT CONVECTIVE CHARACTER TO SYSTEM

WITH SOME DOWNSTREAM UPPER RIDGING...THAT COULD STEER THE SYSTEM

ALONG THE MORE NORTHWESTERN PREDICTED TRACKS IN GUIDANCE.

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The 18z GFS is much closer to developing the CCB towards the entire area. It's weakened the primary and moved the coastal low further northwest. This is a result of the earlier closed upper level low and more amplification ahead of the feature.

No doubt about it and make no mistake, tonight's 00z model runs are going to be huge for this system. A whole bunch of questions should be answered.

Yeah,the GFS and Euro will probably be closer by 0Z and certainly by 12Z tomorrow.

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I really don't think we can nail down anything final this soon in the game, even after tonight's 0z runs. All winter storms, especially this winter, show us how silly it is to make conclusions this far out. The Boxing Day storm had crazy details changed 24 hrs before the thing hit. All I care about is the fact that a storm will occur with great potential for good snows. How much (or how little) is still way too soon to finalize.

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The 18z GFS is much closer to developing the CCB towards the entire area. It's weakened the primary and moved the coastal low further northwest. This is a result of the earlier closed upper level low and more amplification ahead of the feature.

No doubt about it and make no mistake, tonight's 00z model runs are going to be huge for this system. A whole bunch of questions should be answered.

I wonder if they launched extra balloons today at 12z.. This was mentioned yesterday in AFD's, and if so, that info should be in the 00z runs comming up.

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Looks like our typical fast moving 6-12" noreaster with locally higher amounts in banding. I flew back today to acy from FL and people on the plane mentioned they heard we were getting 30" what are they smoking no model currently supports those totals

there seems to be some media hype machine that pushed this system right after the Christmas Day storm, I have never heard so many people query me about this storm so far in advance like last week before the Fri/Sat systems hit. Its going to be a pretty significant hit for all but we are talking crippling like that last storm that had such a long period of 2-3 inch an hour snowfall rates

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I wonder if they launched extra balloons today at 12z.. This was mentioned yesterday in AFD's, and if so, that info should be in the 00z runs comming up.

Ummm...what? Special soundings only happen during off hours, such as 18z. Also, if they were to release these "extra balloons" at 12z, the data would be used for the 12z runs.

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hr 57 mod snow for phl-nyc all the way back to pitt.....

hr 60 heavy snow for phl and southern nj...mod snow in nyc

I like Tombo's scheme of less than 0.10" = light snow, 0.10-0.25" = light-mod, 0.25-0.50" = mod snow, 0.50-0.75" = mod-heavy snow, 0.75+ = heavy snow. Its more realistic.

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Ummm...what? Special soundings only happen during off hours, such as 18z. Also, if they were to release these "extra balloons" at 12z, the data would be used for the 12z runs.

The real question is where would we launch extra balloons from? Its not like you can just launch a balloon from any old place. It needs proper tracking and receiving equipment.

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