catoctin wx Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 But at some point isn't more required than just a degree? I'd say you have to be doing something at least related to the field in order to be called a meteorologist. I have a degree in biology - but my profession is a lawyer...it would never even remotely occur to me to call myself a biologist... yes, I do think that more than just a degree is required to be considered a meteorologist. I have a friend who earned 2 degrees in meteorology and is now going to school to earn his MD. I doubt he will ever refer to himself as a meteorologist again. However, there are jobs in meteorology that do not involve forecasting in any way shape or form. I work as a met in the nuclear regulation field. I review atmospheric dispersion characteristics for nuclear power plant applications all over the country. So I am putting my met degrees to use, but not at all in forecasting. I don't think that I should not be considered a meteorologist as the OP insinuated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacChump Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yes, I do think that more than just a degree is required to be considered a meteorologist. I have a friend who earned 2 degrees in meteorology and is now going to school to earn his MD. I doubt he will ever refer to himself as a meteorologist again. However, there are jobs in meteorology that do not involve forecasting in any way shape or form. I work as a met in the nuclear regulation field. I review atmospheric dispersion characteristics for nuclear power plant applications all over the country. So I am putting my met degrees to use, but not at all in forecasting. I don't think that I should not be considered a meteorologist as the OP insinuated. ok - i agree with you on all counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyWx Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Engineering. Color me surprised, an engineer looking down upon another science. Does having my bachelors and working as a professional met in the private sector qualify me as a legitimate meteorologist, your highness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyWx Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yes, I do think that more than just a degree is required to be considered a meteorologist. I have a friend who earned 2 degrees in meteorology and is now going to school to earn his MD. I doubt he will ever refer to himself as a meteorologist again. However, there are jobs in meteorology that do not involve forecasting in any way shape or form. I work as a met in the nuclear regulation field. I review atmospheric dispersion characteristics for nuclear power plant applications all over the country. So I am putting my met degrees to use, but not at all in forecasting. I don't think that I should not be considered a meteorologist as the OP insinuated. Completely agree. I don't think a degree should qualify one for a red tag on this board, but I think a job (or work experience) should. That being said, "meteorologist" is not always synonymous with forecaster. And I know some quality forecasters without a met degree...my boss for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersWx92 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You shouldn't get **** for saying that... because I TA'd quite a few undergrads while getting my MS at PSU and it is like anything else... there are some excellent students who really understand the concepts and others who scrape by with Cs. But, might I also add that having a graduate degree - even a PhD - does not necessarily make you a good meteorologist or forecaster at all... perhaps very skilled in computer programming or a very good mathematician OR educated in one subspecialty like cloud physics parameterization... but you'd be surprised how many of my classmates at the graduate level couldn't tell you what a convergence zone was or how to discern PVA or 850 frontogenesis or even where to start when it came to interpreting computer models. I'd say Earthlight could out-forecast all of them, including myself, despite his non-redtag status. ; ) Really? I find that pretty surprising, especially for a place like PSU. I thought in most schools you learned how to read/interpret computer models in some of your undergrad met courses; maybe I was wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Really? I find that pretty surprising, especially for a place like PSU. I thought in most schools you learned how to read/interpret computer models in some of your undergrad met courses; maybe I was wrong? It may be splitting hairs, but at the graduate level (as he specified), many people don't hold an undergrad met degree. Grad school students are often students with Physics, Chemistry, or other science degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwc Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I always get **** for saying this, but an undergrad met degree does not make you a Meteorologist. It's roughly equivalent to 1 months worth of text book reading for the average person. Edit: I didn't start this thread and don't think it's a particularly worthwhile subject for discussion. But I'm glad the comments were removed from the discussion/obs thread. "A meteorologist is an individual with specialized education who uses scientific principles to explain, understand, observe or forecast the earth's atmospheric phenomena and/or how the atmosphere affects the earth and life on the planet. This specialized education would be a bachelor's or higher degree in meteorology, or atmospheric science, consistent with the requirements set forth in "The Bachelor's Degree in Meteorology or Atmospheric Science," Bulletin American Meteorological Society, 1987, Vol. 68, No. 12, p. 1570. There are some cases where an individual has not obtained a B.S. or higher degree in meteorology, but has met the educational requirements set forth in the American Meteorological Society's Interpretive Memorandum effective June 1990, Article III, Section 4 ©, and has at least three years professional experience in meteorology. Such an individual also can be referred to as a meteorologist." http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/whatisam.html Much like just because you graduate from law school does not make you a lawyer...it merely makes you a guy with a law degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have little interest in, and can say honestly I have very little talent in, forecasting. I dare someone to tell me I'm not a meteorologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have little interest in, and can say honestly I have very little talent in, forecasting. I dare someone to tell me I'm not a meteorologist. amen brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have little interest in, and can say honestly I have very little talent in, forecasting. I dare someone to tell me I'm not a meteorologist. You're most definitely a meteorologist if you possess the degree. Yet you may not be a forecaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Really? I find that pretty surprising, especially for a place like PSU. I thought in most schools you learned how to read/interpret computer models in some of your undergrad met courses; maybe I was wrong? Many meteorology schools do not really have forecasting classes. You learn a lot of practical forecasting from synoptic knowledge, older students, certain professors, and activities like NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 amen brother While I agree, I think the debate was more if you should be considered a meteorologist if you obtained a meteorology degree but do not work in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 eduggs has always been a pompous bastard. Glad he stays in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersWx92 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Many meteorology schools do not really have forecasting classes. You learn a lot of practical forecasting from synoptic knowledge, older students, certain professors, and activities like NFC. I'm sure the things you mentioned would help, but I still hope that the Rutgers met program has at least some classes that focus on forecasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm sure the things you mentioned would help, but I still hope that the Rutgers met program has at least some classes that focus on forecasting. I believe both Synoptic and Mesoscale deal with forecasting (I know for a fact Synoptic does). You have to participate in the New Brunswick Forecasting Game as well as the national WxChallenge (where how well you do in your forecasts actually constitutes part of your grade). As the syllabus for Synoptic says, Purpose of the Course Broadly speaking, the purpose of this course is to teach you how to think about the weather like an atmospheric scientist, or, to be more specific, like a synoptician. Synoptic meteorology is truly the course where you synthesize your knowledge from past courses in dynamics, thermodynamics, and meteorological analysis, amongst others. From this synthesis you describe (what?), diagnose (why?), interpret (how?), and theorize (so what?) about the weather. Only with this understanding in place can you scientifically engage in the central activity of a meteorologist, predicting the weather. Course Description Synoptic meteorology is the study of the weather on the continental scale. This course examines important phenomena such as jet streaks, fronts, and vorticity maxima that govern the weather over thousands of square kilometers. Smaller-scale phenomena such as thunderstorms, tornadoes, lake-effect snows, and gravity waves will be covered in the spring. This is not simply a weather forecasting course, although you will make plenty of forecasts during the semester. Making forecasts without understanding is what computers do, so you will spend ample time learning how the weather works. It is not a pure forecasting class although it is a decent component of it. Edit: In addition, besides having to do the NBFG and WXChallenge, there are weekly weather discussions and GEMPAK is used to analyze case studies (which I suppose isn't necessarily "forecasting" although I'm sure you can derive the obvious benefits of doing such case studies...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 While I agree, I think the debate was more if you should be considered a meteorologist if you obtained a meteorology degree but do not work in the field. And what if you did work in the field but do not currently? What if you still "make forecasts" on a daily basis because you enjoy operational meteorology, but do not receive a paycheck for doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersWx92 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I believe both Synoptic and Mesoscale deal with forecasting (I know for a fact Synoptic does). You have to participate in the New Brunswick Forecasting Game as well as the national WxChallenge (where how well you do in your forecasts actually constitutes part of your grade). As the syllabus for Synoptic says, It is not a pure forecasting class although it is a decent component of it. Edit: In addition, besides having to do the NBFG and WXChallenge, there are weekly weather discussions and GEMPAK is used to analyze case studies (which I suppose isn't necessarily "forecasting" although I'm sure you can derive the obvious benefits of doing such case studies...) Thanks for the info, now I do remember some of the seniors talking to me about Synoptic. They said that if you don't meet a certain accuracy threshold for a particular forecast you have to write a paper explaining why your forecast busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for the info, I do remember some of the seniors talking to me about Synoptic. They said that if you don't meet a certain accuracy threshold for a particular forecast you have to write a paper explaining why your forecast busted. WOW! We never had to do any of that. That would have been cool! Some of the students I graduated had no interest whatsoever in following models or making forecasts, while others did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Lightning Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 WOW! We never had to do any of that. That would have been cool! Some of the students I graduated had no interest whatsoever in following models or making forecasts, while others did. In Physical we were doing the WxChallenge and went over the forecasts and once in a while why we busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJwinter23 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for the info, I do remember some of the seniors talking to me about Synoptic. They said that if you don't meet a certain accuracy threshold for a particular forecast you have to write a paper explaining why your forecast busted. Hey Rutgers guys, I'll give you a little tidbit as I was in those courses last year. There is a New Brunswick forecasting game for each semester among your classmates as well as Dr. Decker/Grad student helper. That takes place a couple days a week. It is precip probability forecast and temps ranges you forecast for New Brunswick and then a random location the teacher picks (usually a station with huge nam/gfs mos disagreement/ right on the .01 periphary). Then Mon-Thur you also take part in the WxChallenge as was mentioned. If you have 13+ error points on a day for the WxChallenge, it constitutes a bust and you have to write a paper on what went wrong. If you miss a day's forecast you automatically have to write a paper on your highest error point day (even if you didn't bust on a day) for that city which the WxChallenge is forecasting for that 2 weeks. Then during mesoscale in the Spring semester, you'll have 3-4 forecasting labs. They are timed assignments during the lab period and it will involve winter storm events in the first part, and then convective events in the Midwest during the Spring. You are graded by how well you do against your other classmates. I remember we had to forecast the Feb 9th-10th event last year which was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 In Physical we were doing the WxChallenge and went over the forecasts and once in a while why we busted. That was after I graduated, after Croft had some time to revamp that aspect of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARyan Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Much like just because you graduate from law school does not make you a lawyer...it merely makes you a guy with a law degree. That's a poor analogy. You need to pass the bar exam in order to practice law. There is no such equivalent for meteorology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Lightning Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 That was after I graduated, after Croft had some time to revamp that aspect of the program. Oh, I know that Greg-so basically that means that I'm a more well-rounded met than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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