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NYC/PHL Potential Jan 11-14 Event Discussion


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January 11th to January 14th 1964, Alex, pretty long storm, but it took the wrong track for us to get 30+.

Looks like it was a high end KU storm with a large area of heavy snow, but we were in the 4-8 end of it.... still, that was a good winter for us; el nino, wasnt it?

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Also probably a more widespread storm so instead of having parts of NJ with 30" and parts with like 3 inches you could have a uniform 6-12 with Jackpot areas hitting up to 15 inches.

Yeah, and if we get any kind of dynamic action with thundersnow (even if its of short duration) we could have someone get up to around 18" IF things work out right. I've seen several storms that didnt stall that had a ceiling around that high. Specifically Feb 1994 (second storm) which dumped about that much in Newark.

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Even a 6" snowfall would be our biggest areawide January snowfall since 2005

I agree. Verbatim that 500mb signature will capture the low somewhat and bomb it out east of NJ. I still don't think it stalls like the Boxing Day storm but it could slow down a little and develop more banding signatures like we saw then. At max I see this as maybe a 12-15" event, not 20-30". Still very impressive however.

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The Euro expands the Precip to the west of the low, more amplified and great middle of the road track for many. GFS continues with its de-amplified and off the coast routine, when its individual ensembles are mainly depicting BM tracks or coastal hugger tracks.

Looks like the ensembles of most of the OP runs were to the west for the last few days, hopefully everything is starting to come more in line now.

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Just for fun while we wait for the srefs and 18z suite, take a look at the Hires NMM at 48 hours. This is a classic NE snow storm 700 setup.

This is likely too amplified as it is already showing a closed 500 low but its a pretty couple of images.

hiresw_700_048l.gif

hiresw_500_048l.gif

Also a very nice snowstorm for northern Alabama & northern Georgia. I am sure the mountains in NE Georgia will do very well. Most indications at this point definitely want to bring this north.

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Reread

Even a 6" snowfall would be our biggest areawide January snowfall since 2005

it says January snowfall :lol:

LOL I saw that afterwards, my apologies haha. The funny thing is, I was just thinking about this the other day-- that we dont have has many big January snowfalls as we do in the other winter months. I wonder if suppression is the reason?

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If the trends continue, perhaps the storm can get captured a bit earlier, and thus slow down more at our latitude. This won't be a slow-moving storm by any means, but I don't think it's just going to race away.

Yeah, I mean I dont think it will be a 12 hr deal, but we'll have to see the trends of course.

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whats not necc true is the idea we dont have a -NAO so the storm will be fast.

we are transitioning from a -nao to +nao as the system hits and yes, our biggest KU storms occur during the span. however, the slowing or stalling doesnt necc occur from a strong block. if we had a strong block in place here there is no way this comes up the coast. but the stalling or slowing occurs moreso from the bombing stages, the capturing of the low, etc....and that can still happen here, even if the 50/50 scoots out during, transitioning to +nao, happens.

if a met wants to chime in, please do. am i far off?

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whats not necc true is the idea we dont have a -NAO so the storm will be fast.

we are transitioning from a -nao to +nao as the system hits and yes, our biggest KU storms occur during the span. however, the slowing or stalling doesnt necc occur from a strong block. if we had a strong block in place here there is no way this comes up the coast. but the stalling or slowing occurs moreso from the bombing stages, the capturing of the low, etc....and that can still happen here, even if the 50/50 scoots out during, transitioning to +nao, happens.

if a met wants to chime in, please do. am i far off?

That's my understanding too, but we'll wait for Will or SG to chime in. Many of our bigger ones occurred during a transition to positive, like Feb 1961 and PD2. As you'll note, a few of those were transitioning to positive quite rapidly too.

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HPC excerpt from 2:30pm today.

12Z DETERMINISTIC MODELS HAVE COME INTO CONSIDERABLY BETTER

CONSENSUS ON THE LOW DEVELOPING OFF THE E COAST TUE-WED DAYS 3-4.

THOUGH THE OFFSHORE TRACK SHOULD TEND TO KEEP ASSOCIATED HEAVY

SNOWFALL FROM EXTENDING TOO FAR TO THE W. THERE STILL APPEARS TO

BE ENOUGH ASSOCIATED UPPER DYNAMICS FOR A GENERAL HEAVY SN EVENT

FOR MUCH OF LONG ISLAND AND SRN NEW ENG. THE NEW ECMWF ALSO

SUPPORTS THIS IDEA OF A MAJOR SNOW EVENT FOR SRN NEW ENG. HOWEVER

IT IS TRACKING A LOW CLOSER TO THE COAST THAN CONSENSUS OF OTHER

MODELS.

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whats not necc true is the idea we dont have a -NAO so the storm will be fast.

we are transitioning from a -nao to +nao as the system hits and yes, our biggest KU storms occur during the span. however, the slowing or stalling doesnt necc occur from a strong block. if we had a strong block in place here there is no way this comes up the coast. but the stalling or slowing occurs moreso from the bombing stages, the capturing of the low, etc....and that can still happen here, even if the 50/50 scoots out during, transitioning to +nao, happens.

if a met wants to chime in, please do. am i far off?

Absolutely true...the bombing and upper level capture/deepening can allow it to stall and even wobble and retrograde within the flow...even if it's progressive.

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and considering how the past couple months have been.....it favors a deepening cutoff system. im stickin with the seasonal trends until they change.

Actually extending back to last winter.... its funny how radically different ENSO has been and yet the results have been so similar.

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The 18z NAM is really strong again--and by 70 hours is bringing the surface low inland along the Carolinas. It really doesn't want to budge with this solution and it has support from the SREFS, ECMWF and GFS Ens. means. The diffluent flow ahead of the shortwave is actually better this run..so I would assume that by 84 hours we should be seeing something pretty on this run. We may have to wait till the 90 hr DGEX panel, but it should be good.

It is a little slower to transfer the energy to the coast this run, though, so we should always be cautious.

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HPC excerpt from 2:30pm today.

12Z DETERMINISTIC MODELS HAVE COME INTO CONSIDERABLY BETTER

CONSENSUS ON THE LOW DEVELOPING OFF THE E COAST TUE-WED DAYS 3-4.

THOUGH THE OFFSHORE TRACK SHOULD TEND TO KEEP ASSOCIATED HEAVY

SNOWFALL FROM EXTENDING TOO FAR TO THE W. THERE STILL APPEARS TO

BE ENOUGH ASSOCIATED UPPER DYNAMICS FOR A GENERAL HEAVY SN EVENT

FOR MUCH OF LONG ISLAND AND SRN NEW ENG. THE NEW ECMWF ALSO

SUPPORTS THIS IDEA OF A MAJOR SNOW EVENT FOR SRN NEW ENG. HOWEVER

IT IS TRACKING A LOW CLOSER TO THE COAST THAN CONSENSUS OF OTHER

MODELS.

Did you expect anything different? Its been the trend since the beginning of last winter..

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and considering how the past couple months have been.....it favors a deepening cutoff system. im stickin with the seasonal trends until they change.

Yeah...gotta stick with the trend...the trend is our friend. And thankfully, it's been in a friendly mood as of late...we'll see.

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The 18z NAM is really strong again--and by 70 hours is bringing the surface low inland along the Carolinas. It really doesn't want to budge with this solution and it has support from the SREFS, ECMWF and GFS Ens. means. The diffluent flow ahead of the shortwave is actually better this run..so I would assume that by 84 hours we should be seeing something pretty on this run. We may have to wait till the 90 hr DGEX panel, but it should be good.

It is a little slower to transfer the energy to the coast this run, though, so we should always be cautious.

Definitely determined to bring this further NW.

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The 18z NAM is really strong again--and by 70 hours is bringing the surface low inland along the Carolinas. It really doesn't want to budge with this solution and it has support from the SREFS, ECMWF and GFS Ens. means. The diffluent flow ahead of the shortwave is actually better this run..so I would assume that by 84 hours we should be seeing something pretty on this run. We may have to wait till the 90 hr DGEX panel, but it should be good.

It is a little slower to transfer the energy to the coast this run, though, so we should always be cautious.

yea. i agree. I was just watching the NAM as it comes in....already has a nice closed off system developing at 75... looks like good potential

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