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NYC/PHL Potential Jan 11-14 Event Discussion


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The +NAO strongly argues for it coming in close to the coast, but also that it leaves early and doesn't stall.

I would gladly take that if it meant a 6"+ snowfall for inland areas that have missed out so much lately. Outside of that, with the tendency of erratic modeling lately, I can't get too excited until we're within 36 hours of the event, and even then, as we've seen, nothing is totally set in stone.

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well from all reports the new GFS was a bad run too (model hickuop), the Nogapps shifted east too, overall the trends have not been positive

The nogaps is a God awful model that mets don't even look at. Have you ever heard it mentioned in a HPC discussion? There is a reason for that. The GGEM has the fourth best verification scores. The number one model for east coast storms is the Euro and it's ensembles and until they back away, there is no trend today.

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well from all reports the new GFS was a bad run too (model hickuop), the Nogapps shifted east too, overall the trends have not been positive

This happens more often then not.

Something about the day 3 timeframe and the 12Z run...always a herky jerky model diversion accross the board...then everything pretty much self corrects by 00Z.

I'm telling you...this has come to be expected. I'm actually still worried about a brief changeover to sleet here coastal NJ for a period. Look at the WRF (NAM)...it's looking to keep this thing right along the coast just beyond the 84 hour timeframe, as the PVA rotates in and the pressures drop off quickly.

.

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This happens more often then not.

Something about the day 3 timeframe and the 12Z run...always a herky jerky model diversion accross the board...then everything pretty much self corrects by 00Z.

I'm telling you...this has come to be expected. I'm actually still worried about a brief changeover to sleet here coastal NJ for a period. Look at the WRF (NAM)...it's looking to keep this thing right along the coast just beyond the 84 hour timeframe, as the PVA rotates in and the pressures drop off quickly.

.

The fact that the only model really bringing this inland and making it a coast hugger is the NAM, and the NAM derived models (SREFs and DGEX) probably argues that it's overdoing the amplitude of the system and a further out solution is better. But at 3-4 days out, anything could change really. I also wouldn't put any eggs in the NAM's basket at 84 hours out.

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It's OTS on this run. How does the GFS go from being really amplified at one point to a flat wave?:arrowhead:

This is the 12Z GooFuS @ 84 hours:

gfs_200_084s.gifgfs_500_084s.gif

Because I'm missing something, what exactly is causing this s/w to NOT dig and amplify? Is it that strong jet streak on the H2 frame that's just pushing it? Why doesn't the GFS want this to amplify?

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This is the 12Z GooFuS @ 84 hours:

Because I'm missing something, what exactly is causing this s/w to NOT dig and amplify? Is it that strong jet streak on the H2 frame that's just pushing it? Why doesn't the GFS want this to amplify?

main reason to my eyes is because the northern stream s/w is not as strong, which doesnt amplify the trof

gfs_500_078m.gif

gfs_500_084m.gif

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Coastal track or not, I would be more concerned by the fact that even the model hits don't look all that impressive regarding dynamics and precip. Seems moisture starved and at most a moderate hit in the better case scenarios. Which I'll take for sure, but we're dealing with much uncertainty regarding track as well as what the impact will be evn if the track works out for many. Because of this I would keep expectations to more of the "chance of some snow" variety than I would a big snowstorm.

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As usual you get one or two runs that are not "Ideal" and alot of folks go into a tizzy. Like somebody else wrote I would be more concerned with Mixing or Changeover than a complete miss at this point..If things keep trending east or weaker over the next day or so than concern will be warranted.

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I have seen a few posts that today at 12z everything should have been sampled fully. Not sure I agree with that.

At 12z today, the southern vort was over nw mexico, and the nothern stream energy was still in Canada.

These are notoriously bad sampling area, especially NW mexico. 00Z tonight and then one more cycle at 12z tomorrow would be a better target than 12z today.

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The fact that the only model really bringing this inland and making it a coast hugger is the NAM, and the NAM derived models (SREFs and DGEX) probably argues that it's overdoing the amplitude of the system and a further out solution is better. But at 3-4 days out, anything could change really. I also wouldn't put any eggs in the NAM's basket at 84 hours out.

I agree...and that's where I'm holding onto hope...because frankly if they were to verify I'd be in big trouble with a big time changeover.

Like I mentioned, I'm not buying this sloution. I'm making the point that there is almost always a 3 day anomolous hiccup in the medium range suite in these situations...and that there is good evidence this thing's going to remain alot closer to the coast and be a bit stronger and more widespread than folks might think.

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main reason to my eyes is because the northern stream s/w is not as strong, which doesnt amplify the trof

gfs_500_078m.gif

gfs_500_084m.gif

Thats what Bastardi just said GFS is on crack on a special Saturday video where he warned NYC santiation to be on the lookout for a major storm Tues/Wed.

Rossi

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