Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,584
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    23Yankee
    Newest Member
    23Yankee
    Joined

Atlantic Tropical Action 2011


Recommended Posts

US Major Landfalls during +AMO

TyDxa.gif

...and during -AMO. There's the expected overall dampened activity, but notice how hard the activity slumps in the E Coast..

lhvVj.gif

* Note: This is based on latest hurdat 1851-2009. There are some glaring errors in this source, just like showing Gloria as a major landfall in the 2nd graph (best track shows it as a cat2 -shown here- but it's considered a major hit by hurdat, hence the filtering displaying Gloria)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 992
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Matthew explained it shows the general pattern...

:lol:

Why do you believe it doesn't show the general/large scale pattern? The western Atlantic bermuda high is forecasted to be stronger then most of last season. That shows something....You get a trough at 500 mb's centered near 85 west then you have a better chance at getting a east coast season. It is better then Ivanhaters 260 hour gfs that is jsut above my post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do you believe it doesn't show the general/large scale pattern? The western Atlantic bermuda high is forecasted to be stronger then most of last season. That shows something....You get a trough at 500 mb's centered near 85 west then you have a better chance at getting a east coast season. It is better then Ivanhaters 260 hour gfs that is jsut above my post.

A surface pressure map valid in late May, just a snapshot, and a forecasted snapshot at that, doesn't really, really say much about JASO, IMHO. I'm just an amateur, note two different degreed meteorologists also thought it was kind of pointless. They might be better to explain it. 10 day GFS runs are silly as well, although multiple runs valid at the same time suggesting similar features at least shows a trend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That icep*ssy thing near 28N? Wow-- that caught me by surprise. :D

Very asymmetric/comma-shaped.

850mb analysis shows a temperature gradient, but it's very weak with no well-defined front:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_850_temp_ht.gif

But it looks like that's because it's mostly an upper-level low induced by a weak jet-streak:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_300_wnd_ht.gif

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_500_vort_ht.gif

A surface low is spinning up probably based on the interaction of the upper low with the southern end of a cold front/pressure trough:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_10m_wnd_precip.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there has been nothing worth posting about in this thread for the last week...still not sure how you guys are eeking out a conversation about such silly crap

i still stand by this statement despite the declaration of an invest immediately afterwards tongue.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very asymmetric/comma-shaped.

Yep-- that's why I called it what I did.

850mb analysis shows a temperature gradient, but it's very weak with no well-defined front:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_850_temp_ht.gif

But it looks like that's because it's mostly an upper-level low induced by a weak jet-streak:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_300_wnd_ht.gif

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_500_vort_ht.gif

A surface low is spinning up probably based on the interaction of the upper low with the southern end of a cold front/pressure trough:

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagGemPakImages/gfs/20110523/12/gfs_atlantic_012_10m_wnd_precip.gif

Oooh, Mallowberry's gettin' his tropical-met chops warmed up for the season. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep-- that's why I called it what I did.

Oooh, Mallowberry's gettin' his tropical-met chops warmed up for the season. B)

I've gots-to think about how to run the tropical forecast this season. Lots of decisions! I'd like to get the "rules" and first month up by the end of the day today, if I can!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not even up on NRL yet. That said: yawn.

Yep. Just tryin' to get into that ole routine, you know. Nice warmup for the real season I suppose.

SPECIAL TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK

NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL

135 PM EDT MON MAY 23 2011

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

A SURFACE LOW LOCATED ABOUT 650 MILES EAST-SOUTHEAST OF BERMUDA IS

ASSOCIATED WITH A MID- TO UPPER-LEVEL LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM. SHOWER

AND THUNDERSTORM ACTIVITY REMAINS DISORGANIZED DUE TO STRONG

UPPER-LEVEL WINDS...AND ANY DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SYSTEM SHOULD BE

SLOW TO OCCUR. THERE IS A LOW CHANCE...20 PERCENT...OF THIS SYSTEM

BECOMING A SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS AS IT MOVES

TOWARD THE EAST OR EAST-SOUTHEAST AT 10 TO 15 MPH. ADDITIONAL

INFORMATION ON THIS SYSTEM CAN BE FOUND IN HIGH SEAS FORECASTS

ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE...UNDER AWIPS HEADER

NFDHSFAT1 AND WMO HEADER FZNT01 KWBC. ANOTHER SPECIAL OUTLOOK WILL

BE ISSUED TUESDAY...OR SOONER IF NECESSARY.

$$

FORECASTER BRENNAN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is what rainstorm likes to do and it kind of shows the general pattern of things. Anyways that weakness is still "weaker" then what we had to deal with much of last season. I expect that this season will have more western Atlantic ridging and a much more east coast centered trough as the 500 millibar pattern shows in early June on the last page...That is why this season will more likely be like 1996, 1999 with track of the cyclones. It. doesn't deserve crapped on, but explained to rainstorm why a storm might not make it across on the short scale, but the large scale of things is far better then last season.

Why do you believe it doesn't show the general/large scale pattern? The western Atlantic bermuda high is forecasted to be stronger then most of last season. That shows something....You get a trough at 500 mb's centered near 85 west then you have a better chance at getting a east coast season. It is better then Ivanhaters 260 hour gfs that is jsut above my post.

The problem is hurricanes and other tropical systems are not steered by surface winds, but at winds at various levels in the atmosphere. Its misleading to show a surface map and pretty much describe how the winds around a surface high or low will control where a tropical cyclone is likely to go. Just take an example forecasted surface pressure map at 168 hrs. Note that it seems like you have widespread easterlies that would draw in Atlantic basin tropical cyclones towards the United States. However, just look in the mid to upper levels to see that the 500mb winds are completely opposite of the surface winds. First of all, no tropical cyclone would be able to develop under such a hostile shearing pattern. Second, if you do end up with any sort of vertical depth, the storm will be mainly steered by these upper level winds, which is why they are far more useful to look at than surface pressure in determining where a system might go. You have to think of the system as a vortex that has quite a bit of vertical depth rather than a two-dimensional flat circulation over water. The deeper the tropical cyclone is, the more the circulation will be influenced by upper level winds since part of the circulation extends up to that height in the atmosphere.

While I certainly don't expect rainstorm to get the message since he/she is a troll, I hope others that are trying to get some meteorological information out of this thread understand why its not practical to base a tropical cyclone track on surface pressure at any time interval.

56x6p.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is hurricanes and other tropical systems are not steered by surface winds, but at winds at various levels in the atmosphere. Its misleading to show a surface map and pretty much describe how the winds around a surface high or low will control where a tropical cyclone is likely to go. Just take an example forecasted surface pressure at 168 hrs. Note that it seems like you have widespread easterlies that would draw in Atlantic basin tropical cyclone towards the United States. However, just look in the mid to upper levels to see that the 500mb winds are completely opposite of the surface winds. First of all no tropical cyclone would be able to develop under such a hostile shearing pattern. Second, if you do end up with any sort of vertical depth, the storm will be mainly steered by these upper level winds, which is why they are far more useful to look at than surface pressure in determining where a system might go. You have to think of the system has a vortex that has quite a bit of vertical depth rather than a two-dimensional flat circulation over water. The deeper the tropical cyclone is, the more the circulation will be influenced by upper level winds since part of the circulation extends up to that height in the atmosphere.

While I certainly don't expect rainstorm to get the message since he/she is a troll, I hope others that are trying to get some meteorological information out of this thread understand why its not piratical to base a tropical cyclone track on surface pressure at any time interval.

Excellent post. I learned a lot from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is hurricanes and other tropical systems are not steered by surface winds, but at winds at various levels in the atmosphere. Its misleading to show a surface map and pretty much describe how the winds around a surface high or low will control where a tropical cyclone is likely to go. Just take an example forecasted surface pressure at 168 hrs. Note that it seems like you have widespread easterlies that would draw in Atlantic basin tropical cyclone towards the United States. However, just look in the mid to upper levels to see that the 500mb winds are completely opposite of the surface winds. First of all no tropical cyclone would be able to develop under such a hostile shearing pattern. Second, if you do end up with any sort of vertical depth, the storm will be mainly steered by these upper level winds, which is why they are far more useful to look at than surface pressure in determining where a system might go. You have to think of the system has a vortex that has quite a bit of vertical depth rather than a two-dimensional flat circulation over water. The deeper the tropical cyclone is, the more the circulation will be influenced by upper level winds since part of the circulation extends up to that height in the atmosphere.

While I certainly don't expect rainstorm to get the message since he/she is a troll, I hope others that are trying to get some meteorological information out of this thread understand why its not piratical to base a tropical cyclone track on surface pressure at any time interval.

56x6p.gif

Great post. I understand that the upper levels are what steers tropical cyclones. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, 92L is receiving Dvorak classifications (subtropical).

24/0545 UTC 27.1N 52.7W ST1.5 92L

23/2345 UTC 27.3N 53.5W ST1.5 92L

23/1745 UTC 28.0N 54.6W ST1.5 92L

Also, I would watch the western Caribbean for potential development after Jun 1. The MJO looks favorable and the upper pattern, with a big ridge from the southern Plains into the SE US, supports lowering pressures underneath it over the western Caribbean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is hurricanes and other tropical systems are not steered by surface winds, but at winds at various levels in the atmosphere. Its misleading to show a surface map and pretty much describe how the winds around a surface high or low will control where a tropical cyclone is likely to go. Just take an example forecasted surface pressure map at 168 hrs. Note that it seems like you have widespread easterlies that would draw in Atlantic basin tropical cyclones towards the United States. However, just look in the mid to upper levels to see that the 500mb winds are completely opposite of the surface winds. First of all, no tropical cyclone would be able to develop under such a hostile shearing pattern. Second, if you do end up with any sort of vertical depth, the storm will be mainly steered by these upper level winds, which is why they are far more useful to look at than surface pressure in determining where a system might go. You have to think of the system as a vortex that has quite a bit of vertical depth rather than a two-dimensional flat circulation over water. The deeper the tropical cyclone is, the more the circulation will be influenced by upper level winds since part of the circulation extends up to that height in the atmosphere.

While I certainly don't expect rainstorm to get the message since he/she is a troll, I hope others that are trying to get some meteorological information out of this thread understand why its not practical to base a tropical cyclone track on surface pressure at any time interval.

Cool post! Thanks, Phil!

FWIW, 92L is receiving Dvorak classifications (subtropical).

24/0545 UTC 27.1N 52.7W ST1.5 92L

23/2345 UTC 27.3N 53.5W ST1.5 92L

23/1745 UTC 28.0N 54.6W ST1.5 92L

Also, I would watch the western Caribbean for potential development after Jun 1. The MJO looks favorable and the upper pattern, with a big ridge from the southern Plains into the SE US, supports lowering pressures underneath it over the western Caribbean.

Hey, Justin-- nice seeing you dropping by! :)

I'm getting excited about 01 June.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, I would watch the western Caribbean for potential development after Jun 1. The MJO looks favorable and the upper pattern, with a big ridge from the southern Plains into the SE US, supports lowering pressures underneath it over the western Caribbean.

Looks like the new 12z ECMWF does just that with origins from the Mid Latitudes...perhaps a pv-streamer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, hey! How are you? :)

Just in time... It's almost 01 June. ;)

Hey man, I'm doing okay. How have you been? I am looking forward to this season all-around. The ENSO/MJO trends promise to bring a broader range of above normal activity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...