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White Christmas will not be made "official" in the record books for most cities in NC

Rankin5150

By Rankin5150,
in Southeastern States

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Rankin5150

Rankin5150

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Posted

That's stupid. That's like putting out an accumulation map of zero, even though you might have gotten 6 inches but then the sun came out an melted it all. Officially, you got zero, according to this method. That's idiotic and not reflective of reality.

Quote from a person in the blog named Mtnpainter:

"Here The 7 am mandate for officially representing snow fall for a day that is not over for another 17 hours is nonsense and distorts what actually occured on the measured day. Rainfall measurement for a day or month or any time period is not mandated to be measured at 7 am, so why do professionals put up with such a flawed definition for snow measurement? When someone asks if there was measurable snow on 12/25 or any other date, they expect a straight forward answer - not what was observed at 7 AM on the day in question. When rules are meant to be enforced literally, the professionals in the field of science are the ones that should make sure such procedures are not flawed and maintained out of indifference."

I thought that said it all right there. IMHO, they should take their records at the CLOSE of each date instead of the beginning. WTH?? I hope someone can provide sound reasoning on WHY the records are taken at 7am daily, instead of at the end of the day? In any event, we will not have this one in the record books.

"

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MotoWeatherman

MotoWeatherman

Posted
Posted

Interesting as both Atlanta and Athens have 12z snow depth for December 25th in their climate records when the snow did not happen til late afternoon/night.:whistle:

Atlanta...

[size="3"]CXUS52 KFFC 281110
CF6ATL
PRELIMINARY LOCAL CLIMATOLOGICAL DATA (WS FORM: F-6)

                                         STATION:   ATLANTA
                                         MONTH:     DECEMBER
                                         YEAR:      2010
                                         LATITUDE:   33 39 N
                                         LONGITUDE:  84 26 W

 TEMPERATURE IN F:       :PCPN:    SNOW:  WIND      :SUNSHINE: SKY     :PK WND
================================================================================
1   2   3   4   5  6A  6B    7    8   9   10  11  12  13   14  15   16   17  18
                                    12Z  AVG MX 2MIN
DY MAX MIN AVG DEP HDD CDD  WTR  SNW DPTH SPD SPD DIR MIN PSBL S-S WX    SPD DR
================================================================================

1  45  31  38 -11  27   0    T  0.0    0 13.8 25 290   M    M   2        32 290
2  50  28  39 -10  26   0 0.00  0.0    0  7.0 17 330   M    M   4        25 320
3  59  32  46  -2  19   0 0.00  0.0    0  5.8 20 290   M    M   3        25 290
4  59  35  47  -1  18   0    T  0.0    0 10.8 26 310   M    M   8        35 300
5  48  33  41  -7  24   0 0.00  0.0    0 17.5 29 330   M    M   7        38 330
6  40  27  34 -13  31   0 0.00  0.0    0 16.6 24 320   M    M   3        32 320
7  41  23  32 -15  33   0 0.00  0.0    0 11.3 20 320   M    M   1        25 320
8  36  22  29 -18  36   0 0.00  0.0    0  8.2 16 330   M    M   7        28 330
9  47  22  35 -12  30   0 0.00  0.0    0  4.6 10  80   M    M   2        15  50
10  53  29  41  -5  24   0 0.00  0.0    0  3.0  8 160   M    M   7        11 160
11  49  34  42  -4  23   0    T  0.0    0  7.1 16 140   M    M   9        22 140
12  47  25  36 -10  29   0 0.64  0.1    0 14.9 24 310   M    M   9 1      43 280
13  29  19  24 -22  41   0    T    T    0 19.6 33 310   M    M   6        43 320
14  33  14  24 -22  41   0 0.00  0.0    0 11.4 22 320   M    M   1        31 320
15  35  23  29 -16  36   0    T    T    0  5.1  9 290   M    M   9 46     12 280
16  60  33  47   2  18   0 0.46  0.0    0 10.2 23 230   M    M  10 1      31 220
17  52  35  44  -1  21   0 0.00  0.0    0  9.7 18 320   M    M   7        24 320
18  42  34  38  -7  27   0 0.19  0.0    0  7.0 14 340   M    M   9 12     16  30
19  47  28  38  -7  27   0 0.00  0.0    0  9.2 18 350   M    M   6 18     22 320
20  52  28  40  -4  25   0 0.00  0.0    0  5.1 10 330   M    M   5        17 340
21  58  40  49   5  16   0    T  0.0    0  6.4 14 240   M    M  10        20 220
22  65  36  51   7  14   0    T  0.0    0 14.4 29 320   M    M   4 1      36 330
23  46  28  37  -7  28   0 0.00  0.0    0 12.8 23 330   M    M   2        31 330
24  51  27  39  -5  26   0 0.00  0.0    0  3.3 10 340   M    M   4        16  10
25  40  31  36  -8  29   0 0.33  1.3    T  6.8 24 330   M    M   9 1      31 340
26  31  25  28 -15  37   0    T  0.1    0 20.2 29 330   M    M   8        38 330
[/size]

Athens GA

[size="3"]CXUS52 KFFC 281110
CF6AHN
PRELIMINARY LOCAL CLIMATOLOGICAL DATA (WS FORM: F-6)

                                         STATION:   ATHENS
                                         MONTH:     DECEMBER
                                         YEAR:      2010
                                         LATITUDE:   33 57 N
                                         LONGITUDE:  83 19 W

 TEMPERATURE IN F:       :PCPN:    SNOW:  WIND      :SUNSHINE: SKY     :PK WND
================================================================================
1   2   3   4   5  6A  6B    7    8   9   10  11  12  13   14  15   16   17  18
                                    12Z  AVG MX 2MIN
DY MAX MIN AVG DEP HDD CDD  WTR  SNW DPTH SPD SPD DIR MIN PSBL S-S WX    SPD DR
================================================================================

1  50  32  41  -7  24   0    T  0.0    0 11.5 17 290   M    M   4        26 260
2  53  27  40  -8  25   0 0.00  0.0    0  4.0 14 300   M    M   0        20 300
3  58  29  44  -4  21   0 0.00  0.0    0  4.4 16 290   M    M   0        23 300
4  57  33  45  -2  20   0 0.03    M    0  3.5 20 310   M    M   5 18     26 330
5  49  30  40  -7  25   0 0.00  0.0    0 10.6 20 310   M    M   0        29 300
6  41  26  34 -13  31   0 0.00  0.0    0 11.1 21 300   M    M   0        30 300
7  40  22  31 -16  34   0 0.00  0.0    0  8.7 15 300   M    M   0        22 300
8  35  16  26 -20  39   0 0.00  0.0    0  2.3 10 230   M    M   0        14 230
9  46  17  32 -14  33   0 0.00  0.0    0  2.3  9 110   M    M   0 18     16 210
10  51  24  38  -8  27   0 0.00  0.0    0  1.2  7 120   M    M   0 8      17 190
11  50  28  39  -7  26   0 0.00  0.0    0  4.5 10 120   M    M   2        14 130
12  45  25  35 -10  30   0 0.75  0.0    0 13.1 28 280   M    M  10 1      37 290
13  31  18  25 -20  40   0 0.00  0.0    0 16.8 28 310   M    M   3        38 310
14  36  14  25 -20  40   0 0.00  0.0    0 10.3 16 320   M    M   0        22 280
15  39  21  30 -15  35   0 0.02    M    0  3.5 12 290   M    M   8 1      15 300
16  57  31  44  -1  21   0 0.30    M    0  3.2 12 280   M    M  10 18     17 260
17  56  37  47   3  18   0 0.00  0.0    0  4.9 14 280   M    M   1        21 270
18  40  35  38  -6  27   0 0.24  0.0    0  6.8 14  70   M    M   9 1      17  80
19  50  31  41  -3  24   0 0.00  0.0    0  2.2  8 310   M    M   4 18     13 260
20  54  23  39  -5  26   0 0.00  0.0    0  2.9  9 300   M    M   2        13 250
21  44  33  39  -5  26   0 0.04  0.0    0  0.7  7 200   M    M   9 18     13 200
22  66  39  53  10  12   0    T  0.0    0  7.9 23 290   M    M   5 18     32 280
23  50  29  40  -3  25   0 0.00  0.0    0  5.3 14 310   M    M   0        20 310
24  50  23  37  -6  28   0 0.00  0.0    0  1.8  8 200   M    M   0        12 270
25  43  27  35  -8  30   0 0.45  2.0    2  1.6  8 330   M    M   6 1      12 320
26  32  25  29 -14  36   0 0.09  1.3    0 10.4 22 310   M    M   7 18     31 300

[/size]

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lilj4425

lilj4425

Posted
Posted

I would love to see Isohume comment and explain the odd reason for making it 7am when the day doesn't end until midnight. Is it because most of the spoiled brat kids in the world open their presents at this hour? :huh: So if it rains after 7am, does that not count either? Oh wait, it does count so why does snowfall not?

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superjames1992

superjames1992

Posted
Posted

I would love to see Isohume comment and explain the odd reason for making it 7am when the day doesn't end until midnight. Is it because most of the spoiled brat kids in the world open their presents at this hour? :huh: So if it rains after 7am, does that not count either? Oh wait, it does count so why does snowfall not?

My family didn't open any of our presents until 1 PM when it was snowing. laugh.gif

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Lookout

Lookout

Posted
Posted

Interesting as both Atlanta and Athens have 12z snow depth for December 25th in their climate records when the snow did not happen til late afternoon/night.:whistle:

Hey, if they are going to have such stupid guidelines for defining a white christmas, I have zero problems with them cheating a little so that it is recognized as a white christmas by their stupid rules.

Yeah this is really stupid and defies all common sense and logic. Defining snow only for 7 am and ignoring what happened the rest of the day is mind boggling. This sounds like the typical nonsense you get when dealing with the government. It's sad to see such illogical nonsense from the nws, in particular gsp who I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for.

But I have a feeling though it's not their fault and they are forced to by some nws guideline they have no control over.

It's unbelievable though this even exists because if it snowed 2 feet from 9am on, it still wouldn't be recognized as a white christmas. Wow that is stupid.

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Bozart

Bozart

Posted
Posted

I thought that said it all right there. IMHO, they should take their records at the CLOSE of each date instead of the beginning. WTH?? I hope someone can provide sound reasoning on WHY the records are taken at 7am daily, instead of at the end of the day?

I saw snowflakes Christmas night just before midnight. It was only a trace. Does that qualify as a "white Christmas?" I'd have to say no, IMO.

And even if I'd gotten a dusting -- or even an inch or two -- during that last hour of Christmas evening, I'd still have a hard time thinking of that as a "white Christmas" after the long, cloudy day which had passed uneventfully and dry until people were going to bed. "White Christmas" is a cultural term, not meteorological. "White Christmas" means something entirely different from just "snowfall on Christmas day." Obviously, it means something quite different to the Weather Service.

I could quibble with 7 a.m., but I won't. I don't have that big a problem with it because, to me, if the ground isn't white first thing in the morning when kids are rising to open their presents, it simply isn't a "white Christmas." Was it the gift-opening hour that the Weather Service considered when it set the 7 a.m. guideline? I doubt it, but I don't know.

So what, officially, should "white Christmas" mean? If no one likes the 7 a.m. guideline, what change would you make?

[EDIT] Hugo89: yes. Exactly.

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burgertime

burgertime

Posted
Posted

I bet if you asked the average person what comes to mind when they think of a white Christmas, it's snow on the ground when they wake up in the morning.

+1

This! While it might technically have been snow on Christmas it's certainly hard for the folks on the south and east side of this storm to consider it a "white Christmas". My guess is that they want somewhat of a real representation of a snow storm....or something...I don't know it really doesn't make much sense to me either.

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burgertime

burgertime

Posted
Posted

But it's not a White Christmas for us, either, according to those rules. We had nothing but brown grass on the ground at 7 AM on Christmas Morning.

Didn't The Grinch Who Stole Christmas teach you anything? It's not about the rules or the physical "gifts" and traditions you follow, it's about what's in your heart! If you believed it was a white Christmas then it was!

Now where is my slow clap?

clap.gif

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Ian

Ian

Posted
Posted

it's the standard to do morning measurements for the record books/dailies.

i dont however know if the "white christmas" definition is standardized. for instance, LWX (DC office) combined both the A.M. snowcover info with days that had 1"+ on Christmas for their count.

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isohume

isohume

Posted
Posted

I would love to see Isohume comment and explain the odd reason for making it 7am when the day doesn't end until midnight. Is it because most of the spoiled brat kids in the world open their presents at this hour? :huh: So if it rains after 7am, does that not count either? Oh wait, it does count so why does snowfall not?

The 12Z snow depth measurement goes all the way back to the the beginning of COOP measurements in the late 1800s. I haven't found any good info on why the primary sites, where an observer is there 24/7 taking 6 hour sn obs, adhered to this SD measurement time as well. I'm thinking to keep consistency. But anyway, the official record is the 12Z ob for that day and that's what's in the database as far as a white Christmas goes. I'm thinking it has to do with waking up to a white Christmas, ie...more than a trace on the ground. Hence the Christmas was white all day long. This topic is really hard to find good info on and even harder to explain to the media and public. The Charlotte media was really lobbying for an official white x-mas, but even throughout the day they only had 0.4 SF which is a trace SD. NCDC does define a white x-mas as 1 inch SD at 12Z...so with that, no climo site in our CWFA had a white xmas.

I think more info should have been put out by the NWS right before x-mas to explain what an official white xmas is. Folks will probably remember this last event as a white x-mas, which is fine. But 50 years from now when someone does a search through the climo database, 2010 will not show up.

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isohume

isohume

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the info ISO! I was hoping we could get this one nailed in the books! :) hope you had a great Christmas!

Thanks man...I worked through Christmas, but it was good. Hope you had a great Christmas too!

Yeah, I was thinking at first it was a white x-mas, but then reality set in. It would have been nice to have witnessed an historical weather event that only has a return period of about 50 years. Maybe next year. lol

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BullCityWx

BullCityWx

Posted
Posted

Thanks man...I worked through Christmas, but it was good. Hope you had a great Christmas too!

Yeah, I was thinking at first it was a white x-mas, but then reality set in. It would have been nice to have witnessed an historical weather event that only has a return period of about 50 years. Maybe next year. lol

Are you in the complaint department now?

:devilsmiley:

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