:axe:

[Midlo Snow Maker]

[Ian]

How do you know they're not covering their buts. For them the bigger problem would be not forecasting an event when the NWS had a warning and then having it happen. To me it smacks of making an excuse for something you ran with and then trying to foist the blame on someone else.

i can recall both ryan and hill being bearish earlier in the week but so were others. if the 6-10 verified i wonder if they would have given the nws props or claimed they got the forecast right?

[Ian]

man that hi res shot is even worse.. there's white ground just east of dc

[aldie 22]

Ugh...the snow map has made its way over to the SNE forum.....here we go. Ian do you still have the one from last year that showed the reverse?

[Ian]

Ugh...the snow map has made its way over to the SNE forum.....here we go. Ian do you still have the one from last year that showed the reverse?

this after feb 5-6

this has less but it snowed right after up to bos

ppl are silly to say we deserve it because of last yr. we got a once in a lifetime winter... of course the one after is going to suck.

i think the SNE/LI radar loop on feb 6 might be one of the best images all time

[WxUSAF]

Oh yeah, feels good.

[Midlo Snow Maker]

this is my favorite

[Kevin Druff]

<br />this is my favorite

[real]

How do you know they're not covering their buts. For them the bigger problem would be not forecasting an event when the NWS had a warning and then having it happen. To me it smacks of making an excuse for something you ran with and then trying to foist the blame on someone else.

I agree. The t.v. news forecasts this weekend were awful.

Part of the reason, I assume, is they had their back-ups on cause the A-team was likely on holiday break. But their forecasts at times were extremely behind the curve.

For example, on Christmas eve at 11 p.m., after GFS started hinting at a storm, most were still saying "out to sea." Then on Christmas Day they just seemed confused. It's one thing to be confused cause everyone sort of was, but at least say you are confused and the storm could go either way. Don't just rattle out senseless garbage that is 12 hours behind the times.

When I read that, I was amazed they were trying to put the blame on the LWX. If in-house mets were really grumbling, didn't they have an obligation to speak up at the time?

[mappy]

That high res snow photo is painful to look at

[Sparky]

look at it on the bright side, at least today is Dec 27 and not Feb 27

granted, I don't like it when a big storm like this one misses us for fear it represents the seasonal pattern, but we have plenty of time left this winter for some snow

at worst, its a signal that we will be odd man out on the east coast this winter for record or well above average snows

but I think (maybe, "hope" is the better word) the -AO/-NAO will work some magic eventually

I take it you didn't go downy Ocean to experience the blizzard there?

[Sparky]

it's hard to examine any one storm in terms of climo overall... i agree it went against the general grain that we know to be la nina. that said, if you look at the month as a whole it looks like a nina here. i'd like to believe it's some look at a pattern ahead and oftentimes you can get some general idea early in retrospect. however the pineapple express thing was a pretty rare event overall so im not sure we'll see that part again at least this winter.

December has been like a LaNina without the in between warm spells...yet. Maybe we will get that in Jan/Feb.

[clskinsfan]

Its actually cool to look at that high res image and see upslope snow on the east side of Mount Weather with no snow anywhere around it.

[real]

Now that I have moved beyond being angry or extra jealous, the pics on the NY thread are quite amazing. Has D.C. ever experienced a storm like that?

I think our overall totals from Feb. 6 were higher than their's, but have we ever had a truly windy blizzard with massive amounts of snow. Feb. 10 winds were fierce, but the snow was only around a foot in immediate D.C. area.

I wasn't here for 1996, but the pics I saw didn't seem as impressive as the ones in NY. I was here in 2003, and remember Baltimore being sort of like that in terms of extreme snowfall that day (think it was Sunday) but at night it turned to sleet and caused compaction and it really wasn't that windy.

I guess that is a long way of asking? Did DCA verify as a true blizzard in 1996? If not, when was the last time they had 3 consecutive hours of below 1/4 mile visib.?

[gymengineer]

Now that I have moved beyond being angry or extra jealous, the pics on the NY thread are quite amazing. Has D.C. ever experienced a storm like that?

I think our overall totals from Feb. 6 were higher than their's, but have we ever had a truly windy blizzard with massive amounts of snow. Feb. 10 winds were fierce, but the snow was only around a foot in immediate D.C. area.

I wasn't here for 1996, but the pics I saw didn't seem as impressive as the ones in NY. I was here in 2003, and remember Baltimore being sort of like that in terms of extreme snowfall that day (think it was Sunday) but at night it turned to sleet and caused compaction and it really wasn't that windy.

I guess that is a long way of asking? Did DCA verify as a true blizzard in 1996? If not, when was the last time they had 3 consecutive hours of below 1/4 mile visib.?

No it didn't, but based on how inland DC is, it's much more difficult to meet the wind criteria. There have been multiple times when DCA met the 1/4 mile visibility (for three consecutive hours) criteria itself, including during PDII and on 12/19/09. However, as for NYC, Central Park itself was not close to meeting the wind criteria for a blizzard this past storm-- it happened at Kennedy and LaGuardia. And I'm not sure what pics you were able to find from 1/96, but there are definitely plenty out there from the DC area that resemble the NYC area pictures. For example, Kevin Ambrose has a bunch of photos that show the completely buried cars, etc.

[Fozz]

Now that I have moved beyond being angry or extra jealous, the pics on the NY thread are quite amazing. Has D.C. ever experienced a storm like that?

I think our overall totals from Feb. 6 were higher than their's, but have we ever had a truly windy blizzard with massive amounts of snow. Feb. 10 winds were fierce, but the snow was only around a foot in immediate D.C. area.

Well, that foot of snow fell on top of 15-20 inches that were already on the ground, so the snow was probably just as deep, if not deeper in most cases.

I wasn't here for 1996, but the pics I saw didn't seem as impressive as the ones in NY. I was here in 2003, and remember Baltimore being sort of like that in terms of extreme snowfall that day (think it was Sunday) but at night it turned to sleet and caused compaction and it really wasn't that windy.

I guess that is a long way of asking? Did DCA verify as a true blizzard in 1996? If not, when was the last time they had 3 consecutive hours of below 1/4 mile visib.?

No, very few places actually verified a true blizzard in 1996, and as for the last question, I have no idea.

[Ian]

Now that I have moved beyond being angry or extra jealous, the pics on the NY thread are quite amazing. Has D.C. ever experienced a storm like that?

I think our overall totals from Feb. 6 were higher than their's, but have we ever had a truly windy blizzard with massive amounts of snow. Feb. 10 winds were fierce, but the snow was only around a foot in immediate D.C. area.

I wasn't here for 1996, but the pics I saw didn't seem as impressive as the ones in NY. I was here in 2003, and remember Baltimore being sort of like that in terms of extreme snowfall that day (think it was Sunday) but at night it turned to sleet and caused compaction and it really wasn't that windy.

I guess that is a long way of asking? Did DCA verify as a true blizzard in 1996? If not, when was the last time they had 3 consecutive hours of below 1/4 mile visib.?

The blizz of Feb 1899 was probably something like it... a colder version at least. Knickerbocker (1922) too I guess, but that one was like Feb 5-6 last yr I think at least in terms of a wetter snowfall -- the winds were likely stronger in the city in Knickerbocker tho. Feb 1958 was close to blizzard criteria at the end of the storm but lesser snow. 1996 did not reach criteria in the city.

This storm was greater than any of the storms last yr imo.. It was sorta like a combo of one of the two big ones then the real deal blizz, at least in the hardest hit swath from NJ to near BOS. I was watching Twitter streams last night and the reports of thundersnow in and around NYC were pretty amazing for their number and steadiness. It must have been pretty awe inspiring in some of those areas... Bloomberg is getting ripped to shreds.

[real]

Thanks. Yea, and the more I think about, it's all relative. But you got to admit, this is a pretty incredible video I found from someone in New Jersey.

[Fozz]

No it didn't, but based on how inland DC is, it's much more difficult to meet the wind criteria. There have been multiple times when DCA met the 1/4 mile visibility (for three consecutive hours) criteria itself, including during PDII and on 12/19/09. However, as for NYC, Central Park itself was not close to meeting the wind criteria for a blizzard this past storm-- it happened at Kennedy and LaGuardia. And I'm not sure what pics you were able to find from 1/96, but there are definitely plenty out there from the DC area that resemble the NYC area pictures. For example, Kevin Ambrose has a bunch of photos that show the completely buried cars, etc.

Also we have the disadvantage of being further south. A coastal storm usually would not intensify enough to give our latitude the winds that blizzards bring, but NYC and SNE being further north makes them much more favorable for stronger winds. I am no expert, but I think a rule of thumb would be to expect blizzard conditions if the storm is lower than 980 mb. Of course it also depends on how far inland you are.

[Sparky]

Now that I have moved beyond being angry or extra jealous, the pics on the NY thread are quite amazing. Has D.C. ever experienced a storm like that?

I think our overall totals from Feb. 6 were higher than their's, but have we ever had a truly windy blizzard with massive amounts of snow. Feb. 10 winds were fierce, but the snow was only around a foot in immediate D.C. area.

I wasn't here for 1996, but the pics I saw didn't seem as impressive as the ones in NY. I was here in 2003, and remember Baltimore being sort of like that in terms of extreme snowfall that day (think it was Sunday) but at night it turned to sleet and caused compaction and it really wasn't that windy.

I guess that is a long way of asking? Did DCA verify as a true blizzard in 1996? If not, when was the last time they had 3 consecutive hours of below 1/4 mile visib.?

1996 was fierce and deep in Westminster. I had 30 inches with 50mph gusts from Sunday night into Monday morning.

Feb 10 was nearly as deep here , about 27 inches, and quite windy too but not to the extent of Jan 96.

[real]

This storm was greater than any of the storms last yr imo.. It was sorta like a combo of one of the two big ones then the real deal blizz, at least in the hardest hit swath from NJ to near BOS. I was watching Twitter streams last night and the reports of thundersnow in and around NYC were pretty amazing for their number and steadiness. It must have been pretty awe inspiring in some of those areas... Bloomberg is getting ripped to shreds.

I am shocked at the reports and photos of all the buses and taxi and subways stuck. It almost seems like New York could take a lesson from DC on this -- when a blizzard with 2 feet of snow and 50 mile winds are predicted, close everything down. get the buses off the street and make the cabbies stay home for a day.

Kind of seems like Bloomberg may have underestimated the storm, which is surprising since I vividly recall seeing someone post something from Upton weather office the night before warning of extreme winds and telling the media to tell everyone, "this is not your ordinary snowstorm."

[Ian]

Just note my comments above are about DC specifically.. I know the feb 9-10 storm dropped some big totals to the north but a little lesser than this event.

[PhineasC]

Can we just shut this thread down now and move on? Thanks.

[Ian]

I am shocked at the reports and photos of all the buses and taxi and subways stuck. It almost seems like New York could take a lesson from DC on this -- when a blizzard with 2 feet of snow and 50 mile winds are predicted, close everything down. get the buses off the street and make the cabbies stay home for a day.

Kind of seems like Bloomberg may have underestimated the storm, which is surprising since I vividly recall seeing someone post something from Upton weather office the night before warning of extreme winds and telling the media to tell everyone, "this is not your ordinary snowstorm."

I don't really know what happened.. it seems they did underprepare from the comment sections of a few articles I read. That said, they sorta got 'unlucky' i think. Upton's forecast was pretty huge down at the wire, then stepped up again as it got going... but it's tough to know that massive banding is going to set up right over a good part of the area till a few hours out probably. The storm did not necessarily act as planned down to the end... I know a good portion of SNE got at least a little jipped which means the low was west of forecast I guess.. and that might have been the difference between much lesser population impact in the NYC area. Either way, it's hard to understand why they wouldn't have cleared the streets properly beforehand if that's the case.

[Dalfy]

Well, that foot of snow fell on top of 15-20 inches that were already on the ground, so the snow was probably just as deep, if not deeper in most cases.

Yea I remember walking home a week or so after the second february storm and along side the roads, the snow pack was taller than me (I am 5' 4''..) The snow on either side of the sidewalks were almost up to my chest... we definately had around a 40'' snow pack with much bigger drifts..

Oh what I would do to have a repeat of the back to back blizzards....

[green tube]

That's awesome. I think I like the clean and clear roofs as much as the piles of snow. It must have been just like our 10feb2010 storm this year up in Jersey.

it was by far the most wind-whipped-drifting since '96 at my location.

bone dry snow, too.

[Fozz]

Yea I remember walking home a week or so after the second february storm and along side the roads, the snow pack was taller than me (I am 5' 4''..) The snow on either side of the sidewalks were almost up to my chest... we definately had around a 40'' snow pack with much bigger drifts..

Oh what I would do to have a repeat of the back to back blizzards....

I think we all need to be reminded that NYC and Boston have never had two back to back 18"+ blizzards within four days, and probably will never get that. It is the those two blizzards together that make 2009-10 so exceptional.

[clskinsfan]

Never is a hard word to use when it comes to weather.

[Fozz]

Never is a hard word to use when it comes to weather.

I said probably never.

[green tube]

I think we all need to be reminded that NYC and Boston have never had two back to back 18"+ blizzards within four days, and probably will never get that. It is the those two blizzards together that make 2009-10 so exceptional.

i live in a semi-distant suburb of NYC..... and if i lived here for the next 200 years, i'd still never see anything like the snow depths the mid-atlantic had last year.