April 2025 Discussion/Obs

[Sundog]

Autumn is my favorite season, which I believe is also the fastest warming season :/

Man that pisses me off, I can't catch a break. 

[Sundog]

3 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

That's the thing-it was cold, cold in relation to how warm it's been for a decade.   but yes it's a completely different climate than 25 yrs ago.   Wetter/warmer overall

I hate this new climate. If I wanted to live in a subtropical climate I'd move there. 

[donsutherland1]

Back on February 21, I noted:

Even worse, when PNA+ ridges grow too strong during the second half of February—pushing to +1.500 or above—they often play the role of a harsh gatekeeper, shutting the door on any chance of a major snowstorm for the rest of the snow season in the New York City area. Winter 2024-2025 will again challenge that "gatekeeper." In the 12 previous cases since 1950, New York City saw no major snowstorms once the PNA reached +1.500 during the February 15-29 period.

For me, a "significant" snowstorm is 6" or more and a "major" snowstorm is 10" or more.

It's now time to look back to see how things fared following late February's super PNA+ ridge.  Unfortunately, there were no snowstorms whatsoever. There was not even a trace of snow. New York City's last snowfall of the 2024-2025 season occurred on February 20th when 0.4" fell.

[LibertyBell]

7 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I'd call 70s spring though. If that's what counts as summer I'd be for a 6 month long version of it lol

ideal weather, rain one day a week, 70s and sun 6 days a week

[LibertyBell]

6 minutes ago, Sundog said:

I hate this new climate. If I wanted to live in a subtropical climate I'd move there. 

and with the requisite bugs

[donsutherland1]

9 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Yes, the October snowtober was a very anomalous event, has there been an earlier significant snowfall ever in NYC Don?

 

No. But NYC's earliest measurable snowfall occurred on October 15, 1876 when 0.5" fell.  White Plains picked up 3".

[LibertyBell]

7 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Autumn is my favorite season, which I believe is also the fastest warming season :/

Man that pisses me off, I can't catch a break. 

what did you think of October-first half of November

 

temps in the 70s and sunny are nice, save on heating lol

[LibertyBell]

Just now, donsutherland1 said:

No. But NYC's earliest measurable snowfall occurred on October 15, 1876 when 0.5" fell.  White Plains picked up 3".

Thanks, any earlier hints in the historical data from the first half of the 1800s or even earlier Don?

[donsutherland1]

Just now, LibertyBell said:

Thanks, any earlier hints in the historical data from the first half of the 1800s or even earlier Don?

Remarkably, I am not aware of any earlier measurable snowfalls in NYC even prior to 1869.

[Brian5671]

2 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

what did you think of October-first half of November

 

temps in the 70s and sunny are nice, save on heating lol

I'll take it-winter is still long enough even with the warming....

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

I'll take it-winter is still long enough even with the warming....

yep and it can't really snow that time of year anyway

warm and sunny and dry is the ideal Fall weather for me.

When I was a teenager and younger during the 80s I used to shiver in early October because my parents refused to turn on the heat before October 15th, I really hated that lol.

Before that when we lived in an apartment the landlord would not turn on the heat before November 1st-- even worse lol.

Last fall was absolutely awesome and I didn't even think of turning on the heat until November 15th.

I hate temperatures colder than the 70s without any heat.

[Brian5671]

1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

yep and it can't really snow that time of year anyway

When I was a teenager and younger during the 80s I used to shiver in early October because my parents refused to turn on the heat before October 15th, I really hated that lol.

Before that when we lived in an apartment the landlord would not turn on the heat before November 1-- even worse lol.

I hate temperatures colder than the 70s without any heat.

Nov 1st is pushing it-usually you need heat in the AM to take the chill off the house

[LibertyBell]

Just now, Brian5671 said:

Nov 1st is pushing it-usually you need heat in the AM to take the chill off the house

He wanted to let the sun warm us up lol.

rainy chilly days OMG

[LibertyBell]

8 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Remarkably, I am not aware of any earlier measurable snowfalls in NYC even prior to 1869.

Don, was there a snow storm in the 1980s (somewhere around 1987), October 10th if I remember correctly that caused a lot of tree damage in the Hudson Valley? Did NYC get a trace out of that Don? That might be our earliest Trace of snow if so?

 

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

Don that was the era when we used to get snow even from hurricanes

a Cat 2 hurricane from October 1804 comes to mind, it bisected Long Island and snow fell with temps in the 30s.

Not even close to snow. The storm, and I say storm, was likely similar to Isias with majority of the energy due to baroclinic fourcing from a powerful trough interaction.

While gusts in New York City, where the storm arrived that afternoon, initially blew towards the southeast, they soon shifted towards the north-northwest and coincided with a rapid drop in atmospheric pressure, which bottomed out at 977 mbar(28.87 inHg) by the early afternoon. Though the barometer at the weather station remained at that point for much of the afternoon, the air temperature plummeted rapidly from 55 °F (13 °C) to 42 °F (6 °C) during the same period.^[10] A strong westerly circulation encouraged the swift eastward movement of the trough's northern segment, steering the track of the storm northeastward over New England.^[11I’m 

[LibertyBell]

Just now, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Not even close to snow. The storm, and I say storm, was likely similar to Isias with majority of the energy due to barometric fourcing from a powerful trough interaction.

While gusts in New York City, where the storm arrived that afternoon, initially blew towards the southeast, they soon shifted towards the north-northwest and coincided with a rapid drop in atmospheric pressure, which bottomed out at 977 mbar(28.87 inHg) by the early afternoon. Though the barometer at the weather station remained at that point for much of the afternoon, the air temperature plummeted rapidly from 55 °F (13 °C) to 42 °F (6 °C) during the same period.^[10] A strong westerly circulation encouraged the swift eastward movement of the trough's northern segment, steering the track of the storm northeastward over New England.^[11I’m 

hmm I read that temps were in the 30s with snow in Boston and snow and sleet in NYC? Is this the same Cat 2 1804 hurricane that went up through Connecticut near New Haven?

 

[Sundog]

12 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

what did you think of October-first half of November

 

temps in the 70s and sunny are nice, save on heating lol

For Autumn I like crisp 50s. I like 60s too but 70s are too high for Autumn. Still feels like the tail end of summer with those temps. 

[LibertyBell]

2 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Not even close to snow. The storm, and I say storm, was likely similar to Isias with majority of the energy due to barometric fourcing from a powerful trough interaction.

While gusts in New York City, where the storm arrived that afternoon, initially blew towards the southeast, they soon shifted towards the north-northwest and coincided with a rapid drop in atmospheric pressure, which bottomed out at 977 mbar(28.87 inHg) by the early afternoon. Though the barometer at the weather station remained at that point for much of the afternoon, the air temperature plummeted rapidly from 55 °F (13 °C) to 42 °F (6 °C) during the same period.^[10] A strong westerly circulation encouraged the swift eastward movement of the trough's northern segment, steering the track of the storm northeastward over New England.^[11I’m 

wow this is really weird

 

WELP WE CANT BLAME CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE STRANGENESS OF THIS STORM LOL

 

 

 

Though the disturbance developed within the confines of the Atlantic hurricane season,^[7] its widespread early-season snowfall was unprecedented, with few comparable storms since, among them being the 2011 Halloween nor'easter, producing several feet of snowfall in many areas.^[18] Similar circumstances occurred in 2012 with the arrival of Hurricane Sandy, which had a comparable track to the 1804 snowstorm,^[19] though it was extratropical by the time it made landfall.^[20] The storm was also the first known instance of snow instigated by a tropical cyclone until a later storm in 1841.^[16] Since that time, there has been only one other confirmed snowfall event as a result of a tropical cyclone while still considered to be tropical, which was caused by Hurricane Ginny in 1963, generating accumulations of 13 in (33 cm) in Maine.^[17] The storm also displayed abnormal meteorological characteristics which went against conventional understanding. Winds prevailed toward the southwest, the only known example of a northeastern hurricane producing winds in that direction; most generally yielded southeasterly gusts.^[9] In addition, it was one of only two systems recorded strengthening while inland, the other being the 1869 Saxby Gale.^[12]

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

5 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

hmm I read that temps were in the 30s with snow in Boston and snow and sleet in NYC? Is this the same Cat 2 1804 hurricane that went up through Connecticut near New Haven?

 

I just cut and pasted from 1804 New England hurricane. There was 42” of snow in southern Vermont likely at 2,000’ or more. But temps weren’t even close for us. Way too early in the season even back then.

Even calling it a hurricane is highly suspect given the wind directions recorded. A hurricane may have been the nucleus for the storm, but at the very least it was already extra tropical at this latitude. 

[Sundog]

2 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

wow this is really weird

 

WELP WE CANT BLAME CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE STRANGENESS OF THIS STORM LOL

 

 

 

Though the disturbance developed within the confines of the Atlantic hurricane season,^[7] its widespread early-season snowfall was unprecedented, with few comparable storms since, among them being the 2011 Halloween nor'easter, producing several feet of snowfall in many areas.^[18] Similar circumstances occurred in 2012 with the arrival of Hurricane Sandy, which had a comparable track to the 1804 snowstorm,^[19] though it was extratropical by the time it made landfall.^[20] The storm was also the first known instance of snow instigated by a tropical cyclone until a later storm in 1841.^[16] Since that time, there has been only one other confirmed snowfall event as a result of a tropical cyclone while still considered to be tropical, which was caused by Hurricane Ginny in 1963, generating accumulations of 13 in (33 cm) in Maine.^[17] The storm also displayed abnormal meteorological characteristics which went against conventional understanding. Winds prevailed toward the southwest, the only known example of a northeastern hurricane producing winds in that direction; most generally yielded southeasterly gusts.^[9] In addition, it was one of only two systems recorded strengthening while inland, the other being the 1869 Saxby Gale.^[12]

Technically, because of the nature of the atmosphere, every single weather event and observation is influenced by climate change. The atmosphere is one big system. 

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

wow this is really weird

 

WELP WE CANT BLAME CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE STRANGENESS OF THIS STORM LOL

 

 

 

Though the disturbance developed within the confines of the Atlantic hurricane season,^[7] its widespread early-season snowfall was unprecedented, with few comparable storms since, among them being the 2011 Halloween nor'easter, producing several feet of snowfall in many areas.^[18] Similar circumstances occurred in 2012 with the arrival of Hurricane Sandy, which had a comparable track to the 1804 snowstorm,^[19] though it was extratropical by the time it made landfall.^[20] The storm was also the first known instance of snow instigated by a tropical cyclone until a later storm in 1841.^[16] Since that time, there has been only one other confirmed snowfall event as a result of a tropical cyclone while still considered to be tropical, which was caused by Hurricane Ginny in 1963, generating accumulations of 13 in (33 cm) in Maine.^[17] The storm also displayed abnormal meteorological characteristics which went against conventional understanding. Winds prevailed toward the southwest, the only known example of a northeastern hurricane producing winds in that direction; most generally yielded southeasterly gusts.^[9] In addition, it was one of only two systems recorded strengthening while inland, the other being the 1869 Saxby Gale.^[12]

 Where snow fell it was mainly heavy, with reports of snowfall totaling 24 to 30 in (61 to 76 cm) in the Berkshires and up to 18 in (46 cm) near Stockbridge; however, no accumulation was measured in Boston and Worcester due to higher-than-optimal temperatures.^[8][29] In Abington, the hurricane not only impacted the shipping industry but also inflicted severe damage to oak and pine forests.^[21] Severe damage was inflicted to crops as a result of the storm, with potatoes freezing, apples tossed from branches,^[30] and stacks of hay ruined.^[5] Livestock also encountered noteworthy losses, with "large numbers" of cattle, sheep, and fowl having died near Walpole, Newbury, and Topsfield – over a hundred cattle died at Topsfield alone.^[30]

While reports of snowfall were generally sporadic in Massachusetts, snowfall was copious in Connecticut. More than 3 in (7.6 cm) of snow accumulated at Litchfield, while over 12 in (30 cm) was recorded at Goshen. Moderate snowfall also accrued at Woodbridge,^[29] and other regions of the state received up to 24 in (61 cm).^[22] However, the delineation between areas of rain and snow was clearly evident, with more than 3.66 in (9.3 cm) of rain measured in nearby New Haven.^[29] Devastation was also widespread in Rhode Island, with numerous houses damaged at Newport and Providence. In Newport, many ships were damaged,^[31] and several deaths were recorded.^[27] Trees of immense size were also uprooted in both towns, and fence boards were scattered by strong gusts. In Providence, many ships were grounded, a brick house was impaired, and various other structures' chimneys collapsed. The hurricane was described as the "severest storm and gale of wind within the recollection of any of its inhabitants," although little else was known about its impacts in Rhode Island.^[5] Despite the high wind speeds and proximity to other snow-receiving areas, none fell in Providence as a result of warmer temperatures.^[29]

[LibertyBell]

3 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

I just cut and pasted from 1804 New England hurricane. There was 42” of snow in southern Vermont likely at 2,000’ or more. But temps weren’t even close for us. Way too early in the season even back then.

Even calling it a hurricane is highly suspect given the wind directions recorded. A hurricane may have been the nucleus for the storm, but at the very least it was already extra tropical at this latitude. 

Connecticut had a lot of snow.  Looks like that's the closest accumulating snow got to us.  

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

I just cut and pasted from 1804 New England hurricane. There was 42” of snow in southern Vermont likely at 2,000’ or more. But temps weren’t even close for us. Way too early in the season even back then.

Even calling it a hurricane is highly suspect given the wind directions recorded. A hurricane may have been the nucleus for the storm, but at the very least it was already extra tropical at this latitude. 

I would pay to see this storm again over any other including 1635 and 1938

 

Besides the snowfall in CT it also snowed in the Catskills.

rain totals reached 2.27 in (5.8 cm) in New York City.^[10] Meanwhile, to the west in the Catskill Mountains, up to 18 in (46 cm) of snow accumulated

[LibertyBell]

6 minutes ago, Sundog said:

Technically, because of the nature of the atmosphere, every single weather event and observation is influenced by climate change. The atmosphere is one big system. 

coupled with the oceans too, one huge fluidic system.

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

4 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Connecticut had a lot of snow.  Looks like that's the closest accumulating snow got to us.  

That makes sense, since CT has some decent elevation. You know from you’re poconos house how important elevation is in early and late season events. Also, based on the wind direction, it would be extremely difficult for cold enough air near the coast as water temps in early October are still very warm. Even in the 2011 event the warmer water temps had huge impacts on accumulations. More snow fell at JFK then LGA. And the north shore of the island stayed mainly rain with a fetch off the sound. We had a slushy coating in Long Beach, meanwhile within a mile or two of the sound in say Huntington had zero. 

[LibertyBell]

2 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

That makes sense, since CT has some decent elevation. You know form you’re poconos house how important elevation is in early and late season events. Also, based on the wind direction, it would be extremely difficult for cold enough air near the coast as water temps in early October are still very warm. Even in the 2011 event the warmer water temps had huge impacts on accumulations. More snow fell at JFK then LGA. And the north shore of the island stayed mainly rain with a fetch off the sound. We had a slushy coating in Long Beach, meanwhile within a mile or two of the sound in say Huntington had zero. 

Yes!  It also happened in the post Sandy storm (November 7, 2012), I was laughing because we had a big snowfall 8 inches while LGA got white rain.  Freehold NJ got 14 inches That was our earliest decent snowstorm.

 

[Sundog]

2 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

That makes sense, since CT has some decent elevation. You know from you’re poconos house how important elevation is in early and late season events. Also, based on the wind direction, it would be extremely difficult for cold enough air near the coast as water temps in early October are still very warm. Even in the 2011 event the warmer water temps had huge impacts on accumulations. More snow fell at JFK then LGA. And the north shore of the island stayed mainly rain with a fetch off the sound. We had a slushy coating in Long Beach, meanwhile within a mile or two of the sound in say Huntington had zero. 

I think precip rates east of Manhattan kind of sucked too. 

I got barely a coating while Astoria had snow on the ground

[LibertyBell]

2 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

That makes sense, since CT has some decent elevation. You know form you’re poconos house how important elevation is in early and late season events. Also, based on the wind direction, it would be extremely difficult for cold enough air near the coast as water temps in early October are still very warm. Even in the 2011 event the warmer water temps had huge impacts on accumulations. More snow fell at JFK then LGA. And the north shore of the island stayed mainly rain with a fetch off the sound. We had a slushy coating in Long Beach, meanwhile within a mile or two of the sound in say Huntington had zero. 

JFK had 1.5 inches and I had about an inch.  I remember thinking, this might be the only time in my life I get to see accumulating snowfall here in October, I'll enjoy it even if it's just an inch.

Forky was going crazy that day lol.

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, Sundog said:

I think precip rates east of Manhattan kind of sucked too. 

I got barely a coating while Astoria had snow on the ground

How did you do on November 7, 2012, the post Sandy snowstorm?

 

[Sundog]

7 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

How did you do on November 7, 2012, the post Sandy snowstorm?

 

8 inches in that beast! I remember LGA was recording like nothing, but the station is right next to the water and I think that kept their temps at 34 ish and killed accumulation there. 

I have visual confirmation that the local roads literally right next to the airport by the Marine Terminal had 4+ inches. 

I lucked out and was in a bit of a local jackpot. That storm broke a branch and landed on my car and dented my roof and broke off my driver's side door mirror.