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snowman19
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And just like that…..the unbelievably horrendous, outlier GFS completely caves to all the other guidance for Friday. Poof! It’s gone! Literally the worst model there is, hands down. Not even worth looking at anymore

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25 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

And just like that…..the unbelievably horrendous, outlier GFS completely caves to all the other guidance for Friday. Poof! It’s gone! Literally the worst model there is, hands down. Not even worth looking at anymore

But you will still look at it. You aren't fooling anyone.

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42 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

And just like that…..the unbelievably horrendous, outlier GFS completely caves to all the other guidance for Friday. Poof! It’s gone! Literally the worst model there is, hands down. Not even worth looking at anymore

Yep was never going to happen.  Zero cold air and you'd need a perfect track with heavy precip to even have a chance....same ol same ol

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1 hour ago, snowman19 said:

And just like that…..the unbelievably horrendous, outlier GFS completely caves to all the other guidance for Friday. Poof! It’s gone! Literally the worst model there is, hands down. Not even worth looking at anymore

Of course it did. The forecast rule since 18-19 is that the model showing the coldest outcome and more snow is usually wrong. But from 09-10 to 17-18 more often than not the snowiest model outcome was correct. While this isn’t great for the snow lovers, it is an important model forecast pattern that helps us weed out the more unreliable model runs. 

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13 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

The higher minimums contaminate that record, we measure heat by number of hot days (highs of 90 or higher.)  Thus excessively wet summers get an artificial boost as does increased urbanization.  

I go by averages, not extremes.  Number of 90 days is good for relative measuring/records, but averages tell a much more complete story.

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48 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

I go by averages, not extremes.  Number of 90 days is good for relative measuring/records, but averages tell a much more complete story.

we can separate hottest summers (number of 90 degree days) vs greatest positive deviations from the mean (highest averages).  A fine distinction, but it is one.

 

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The GFS, in its current version, has a notorious reputation for struggling in the spring, especially when it comes to handling marginally cold air masses during storms. It seems that the model’s algorithms overamplify the cold, feeding back on itself until the simulated atmosphere becomes drastically colder than reality. This often leads to wildly exaggerated snowfall predictions, forecasting massive, historic snowstorms.

Absent strong support from the other guidance, its big snowfall projections are pure fantasy. Most now know this reality. Therefore, few (mainly on X) now call attention to such runs.

The two below maps from Pivotal Weather illustrate the GFS's problem:

3/18/2025 12z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/22/2025 0z:

image.png.ff03755ac471db3e1d96d5e3c7224b16.png

3/19/2025 0z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/31/2025 12z:

image.png.7bde73e9770d475da75c7bf2d8550914.png

Since 1869, New York City's 10 biggest snowstorms after March 20th are:

1. 11.8", March 20-21, 1958
2. 10.2", April 3-4, 1915
3. 10.0", April 12-14, 1875
4. 9.6", April 6, 1982
5. 9.0", March 22, 1967
6. 8.5", April 1, 1924
7. 8.4", March 21-22, 2018
8. 6.5", April 8-9, 1917 and April 5, 1944
10. 6.4", April 6-7, 1938

Its latest-season snowfall of 12" or more occurred on March 12-14, 1888. Its latest-season snowfall of 24" or more occurred on February 11-12, 2006. Those are Central Park measurements. Parts of New York City very likely saw two feet of snow during the 1888 blizzard.

Although one can never fully rule out an unprecedented event perhaps a farther south version of the March 31-April 1997 snowstorm that dumped 25.4" at Boston, but there was strong support for a big event just ahead of the storm. One needs strong and sustained support, especially for extraordinary events. Given the GFS's known springtime bias, it's better to wait for another model to take the lead on any potential late-season significant or major snow event.

A major snowstorm remains very unlikely for the remainder of the 2024-2025 snow season. The GFS has been an outlier at all times (most recently both the 3/19 0z and 6z runs). Moreover, the historic experience following the kind of strong PNA+ ridge that predominated during the second half of February has not been followed by a 10" or greater snowfall in New York City during March 1 or later (1950-2024).

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Just now, donsutherland1 said:

The GFS, in its current form, has a notorious reputation for struggling in the spring, especially when it comes to handling marginally cold air masses during storms. It seems that the model’s algorithms overamplify the cold, feeding back on itself until the simulated atmosphere becomes drastically colder than reality. This often leads to wildly exaggerated snowfall predictions, forecasting massive, historic snowstorms.

Absent strong support from the other guidance, its big snowfall projections are pure fantasy. Most now know this reality. Therefore, few (mainly on X) now call attention to such runs.

The two below maps from Pivotal Weather illustrate the GFS's problem:

3/18/2025 12z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/22/2025 0z:

image.png.ff03755ac471db3e1d96d5e3c7224b16.png

3/19/2025 0z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/31/2025 12z:

image.png.7bde73e9770d475da75c7bf2d8550914.png

 

You'd need some epic cold and/or insane snowfall to accumulate that this late in the season.  I'd take take it though lol

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7 minutes ago, steve392 said:

You'd need some epic cold and/or insane snowfall to accumulate that this late in the season.  I'd take take it though lol

Yep-usually March events are preceded by a big arctic outbreak of cold air.  That's nowhere in the cards for the rest of the month

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47 / 31 and likely the warmest of the next 7 days with low - mid/upper 60s.  Light rain tomorrow up to 0.50 inches with another windy day coming on Friday. Weekend split but dry with a warmer Sat / cooler Sunday and the next shot at rain on Monday near 0.50 inches.  Ridge west and trough in the east keeps it near normal / slightly below next week (once past Monday) through the 28th.

 

GOES16-EUS-02-1000x1000.gif 

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Records:

Highs:

EWR: 77 (2012)
NYC:  76 (1918)
LGA: 72 (2012)
JFK: 69 (2010)
 

 

 

Lows:

EWR: 8 (1967) * coldest reading post Mar 15th on record at Newark
NYC: 8 (1967)
LGA: 10 (1967)
JFK: 7 (1967)

Historical:

 

1907: The highest March temperature in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was set when the temperature soared to 97 degrees. Dodge City, Kansas, also set a March record with 98 degrees. Denver, Colorado, set a daily record high of 81 degrees.

1935 - Suffocating dust storms occurred frequently in southeastern Colorado between the 12th and the 25th of the month. Six people died, and many livestock starved or suffocated. Up to six feet of dust covered the ground. Schools were closed, and many rural homes were deserted by tenants. (The Weather Channel)


1948: An estimated F4 tornado moved through Fosterburg, Bunker Hill, and Gillespie, Illinois, killing 33 people and injuring 449 others. 2,000 buildings in Bunker Hill were damaged or destroyed. The total damage was $3.6 million.

1950 - Timberline Lodge reported 246 inches of snow on the ground, a record for the state of Oregon. (The Weather Channel)

1956 - The second heavy snowstorm in just three days hit Boston. Nearby Blue Hill received 19.5 inches contributing to their snowiest March of record. (David Ludlum)

1987 - A storm in the western U.S. produced rain and snow from the northern and central Pacific coast to the northern and central Rockies. Heavier snowfall totals included 13 inches at Clear Creek UT, 12 inches at Snow Camp CA and Glacier Park MT, and 10 inches at Kayenta AZ. Wind gusts reached 54 mph at Winslow AZ. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

1988 - Seven cities in California and Nevada reported record high temperatures for the date as readings soared into the 80s and lower 90s. Los Angeles CA reported a record high of 89 degrees. Five cities in south central Texas reported record lows, including El Paso, with a reading of 22 degrees. (The National Weather Summary)

1989 - Six cities reported new record low temperatures for the date as cold arctic air settled into the Upper Midwest for Palm Sunday, including Marquette MI with a reading of 11 degrees below zero. (The National Weather Summary)

1990 - Rather wintry weather in the eastern U.S. replaced the 80 degree weather of the previous week. Freezing temperatures were reported in northern sections of the Gulf Coast States, and snow began to whiten the Northern and Central Appalachians. Up to eight inches of snow was reported in western Virginia. (Storm Data) (The National Weather Summary)

2003 - Denver digs out from the second-biggest snowstorm in the city's history. Almost two and a half feet of wet snow over 36 hours shuts down the city. The month ends as Denver's snowiest March on record.

2003: One of the worst blizzards since records began in 1872, struck the Denver metro area and Colorado's Front Range started with a vengeance. Denver International Airport was closed, stranding about 4,000 travelers. The weight of the snow caused a 40-foot gash in a portion of the roof, forcing the evacuation of that section of the main terminal building. Winds gusting to 40 mph produced drifts six feet high in places around the city. Snowfall in foothills was even more impressive. The heavy wet snow caused numerous roofs of homes and businesses to collapse. The estimated cost of property damage alone, not including large commercial buildings, was $93 million, making it the most costly snowstorm on record for the area. In Denver alone, at least 258 structures were damaged. Up to 135,000 people lost power during the storm, and it took several days for power to be restored. Mayor Wellington Webb of Denver said, "This is the storm of the century, a backbreaker, a record-breaker, a roof breaker." Avalanches in the mountains and foothills closed many roads, including Interstate 70, stranding hundreds of skiers and travelers. The Eldora Ski area 270 skiers were stranded when an avalanche closed the main access road. After the storm, a military helicopter had to deliver food to the resort until the road could be cleared. Two people died in Aurora from heart attacks after shoveling the heavy wet snow. The National Guard sent 40 soldiers and 20 heavy-duty vehicles to rescue stranded travelers along a section of I-70. The storm made March 2003 the snowiest March on record, the fourth snowiest month on record, and the fifth wettest March on record. The total of 22.9 inches is the most significant 24-hour total in March. The storm also broke 19 consecutive months of below-average precipitation for Denver.  The 31.8 inches of snow was recorded at the former Stapleton Airport in Denver for its second-greatest snowstorm on record (the greatest was 37.5 inches on 12/4-12/5/1913) with up to three feet in other areas in and around the city and more than seven feet in the foothills. Higher amounts included: Fritz Peak: 87.5 inches, Rollinsville: 87.5 inches, Canin Creek: 83 inches, Near Bergen Park: 74 inches, Northwest of Evergreen: 73 inches, Cola Creek Canyon: 72 inches, Georgetown: 70 inches, Jamestown: 63 inches, Near Blackhawk: 60 inches, Eldora Ski Area: 55 inches, Ken Caryl Ranch: 46.6 inches, Aurora: 40 inches, Centennial: 38 inches, Buckley AFB: 37 inches, Southwest Denver: 35 inches, Louisville: 34 inches, Arvada: 32 inches, Broomfield: 31 inches, Westminster: 31 inches and Boulder: 22.5 inches. This storm was the result of a very moist intense slow-moving Pacific system that tracked across the four corners and into southeastern Colorado, which allowed a deep easterly upslope to form among the front-range.

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1 hour ago, donsutherland1 said:

The GFS, in its current version, has a notorious reputation for struggling in the spring, especially when it comes to handling marginally cold air masses during storms. It seems that the model’s algorithms overamplify the cold, feeding back on itself until the simulated atmosphere becomes drastically colder than reality. This often leads to wildly exaggerated snowfall predictions, forecasting massive, historic snowstorms.

Absent strong support from the other guidance, its big snowfall projections are pure fantasy. Most now know this reality. Therefore, few (mainly on X) now call attention to such runs.

The two below maps from Pivotal Weather illustrate the GFS's problem:

3/18/2025 12z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/22/2025 0z:

image.png.ff03755ac471db3e1d96d5e3c7224b16.png

3/19/2025 0z Cycle: 24-hour snowfall (10:1 ratio), Valid 3/31/2025 12z:

image.png.7bde73e9770d475da75c7bf2d8550914.png

Since 1869, New York City's 10 biggest snowstorms after March 20th are:

1. 11.8", March 20-21, 1958
2. 10.2", April 3-4, 1915
3. 10.0", April 12-14, 1875
4. 9.6", April 6, 1982
5. 9.0", March 22, 1967
6. 8.5", April 1, 1924
7. 8.4", March 21-22, 2018
8. 6.5", April 8-9, 1917 and April 5, 1944
10. 6.4", April 6-7, 1938

Its latest-season snowfall of 12" or more occurred on March 12-14, 1888. Its latest-season snowfall of 24" or more occurred on February 11-12, 2006. Those are Central Park measurements. Parts of New York City very likely saw two feet of snow during the 1888 blizzard.

Although one can never fully rule out an unprecedented event perhaps a farther south version of the March 31-April 1997 snowstorm that dumped 25.4" at Boston, but there was strong support for a big event just ahead of the storm. One needs strong and sustained support, especially for extraordinary events. Given the GFS's known springtime bias, it's better to wait for another model to take the lead on any potential late-season significant or major snow event.

A major snowstorm remains very unlikely for the remainder of the 2024-2025 snow season. The GFS has been an outlier at all times (most recently both the 3/19 0z and 6z runs). Moreover, the historic experience following the kind of strong PNA+ ridge that predominated during the second half of February has not been followed by a 10" or greater snowfall in New York City during March 1 or later (1950-2024).

It’s a total embarrassment and it pulls this crap literally every March and early-mid April….shows historic blizzards and 20, 30, 40 inches of snow over a 16 day period, which ends of verifying as not even so much as a trace. Complete circus show

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2 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

It’s a total embarrassment and it pulls this crap literally every March and early-mid April….shows historic blizzards and 20, 30, 40 inches of snow over a 16 day period, which ends of verifying as not even so much as a trace. Complete circus show

And what's it's excuse in January and February? 

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12 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

It’s a total embarrassment and it pulls this crap literally every March and early-mid April….shows historic blizzards and 20, 30, 40 inches of snow over a 16 day period, which ends of verifying as not even so much as a trace. Complete circus show

It does ?

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2 hours ago, MJO812 said:

Ha lol

Gfs still snowy in the long range. It's definitely going to get active but slim chance of snow but not a zero chance.

It won’t happen. Hopefully we can get westerly wind sunny days and fewer socked in easterly wind days. We could definitely use the rain so whatever comes on Friday is welcome. 

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41 minutes ago, jm1220 said:

It won’t happen. Hopefully we can get westerly wind sunny days and fewer socked in easterly wind days. We could definitely use the rain so whatever comes on Friday is welcome. 

Saying it won't happen is stupid. A possibility yes but a slim one.

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2 hours ago, Brian5671 said:

Yep-usually March events are preceded by a big arctic outbreak of cold air.  That's nowhere in the cards for the rest of the month

No real arctic air in eastern Canada.  At 11 AM, it's 7 degrees on the western shore of Hudson Bbbbay, and some negative teens in the NW Territories...

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3 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

one can argue the last day of winter was 3/1-3/2 with that arctic shot-been a blowtorch since then

My new averages are based solely on 2024.

So far March has been well below normal. 

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