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Discussion-OBS snow event sometime between 06z Thu 2/20-12z Fri 2/21?


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A quick look at recent SREF members shows the kind of upper level evolution that would be required to get snow into our area from the coastal. The amount of modeled snow is closely correlated with the orientation of the height lines out ahead of the ULL (area highlighted below). In the very few members that show a few inches of snow for our area (from the coastal and not ULL pass), the 500mb height lines are oriented nearly south to north, indicating an ULL taking on a neutral or negative tilt. Note the 12z 12km NAM is on the more extreme end of the spectrum although not the most negatively tilted compared to the full 9z SREF suite. In the majority of members and models that show no snow from the coastal, the trof is positively tilted and height rises in this area are less pronounced. This connection is probably obvious to most. But I still find it somewhat illuminating to look at the individual SREF members since they show variation far outside the likely envelope of solutions.

1583818836_12zNAM500mb.thumb.png.93c41758dd510be6078ffed9c38dee18.png

 

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4 minutes ago, eduggs said:

NMB9 showing the extreme (weenie) solution.

NMB9.png.79d708a7bb4ce66795120c7010971f6e.png

IMO I don't think we will have a good handle on this and how this is going to move up along the coast until the energy is transferred from the Gulf to the southeast  coast and the precip field develops and how much territory it fills and the movement of it - and exactly how the upper low is behaving..........

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15 minutes ago, NEG NAO said:

IMO I don't think we will have a good handle on this and how this is going to move up along the coast until the energy is transferred from the Gulf to the southeast  coast and the precip field develops and how much territory it fills and the movement of it - and exactly how the upper low is behaving..........

And when should that start to happen? Mid day tomorrow? 

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37 minutes ago, NEG NAO said:

IMO I don't think we will have a good handle on this and how this is going to move up along the coast until the energy is transferred from the Gulf to the southeast  coast and the precip field develops and how much territory it fills and the movement of it - and exactly how the upper low is behaving..........

Could that matter for Richmond up to maybe Cape May? Absolutely. For us we would need major changes to the degree that the models would be laughingstocks for us to get meaningful snow. Meaningful=shovel/plow needed. The upper low related snow could leave coatings to an inch here or there, and maybe some IVT like feature develops which is impossible to ferret out until it’s there. But otherwise the lights are off, doors shut and blinds slammed down. It’s way more than the 50 mile shift we sometimes need. 

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What it looks like now ... raging blizzard across KS, ne OK, weak and undeveloped wave s.e. of DFW, tropical energy on low simmer in western Gulf. 500 mb low (529) developing slowly in larger upper trof n/c mN.  

It's a waste of a great set up to have such a flabby upper low, but if that starts to develop at any faster rate than the majority of guidance assumes, look out. It is the weak point, all the necessary surface ingredients are in place. I think it's like a 1 in 20 chance for significant development (n of 37N) and a 1 in 10 for last- minute partial development increasing snow potential from 0-2" to 2-5". 

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18Z RGEM almost identical to 12Z and presents a much more believable general area-wide snowfall from the ULL of 0.5-1.5" of pure powder, with a bullseye on NYC and is fairly similar to the 18Z NAM with the ULL snows - and both show hints of an inverted trough reaching westward from the coastal low to the ULL.  I could see someone getting a few inches wherever the best bands set up.  

snku_acc-imp.us_ma.pngsnku_acc-imp.us_ma.png

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1 hour ago, milleand said:

Thought this was pretty good, I’m sure someone on here wrote this lol

IMG_1181.png

That graphic makes it look like the asteroid is the size of Saudi Arabia, lol - it's actually 177 feet across.  Not sure if Bruce Willis or Robert Duvall will still be around to save us...

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Virginia Beach with up to a foot of snow-what do they average in a season-1 inch?

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Wednesday
Snow, mainly after 1pm. The snow could be heavy at times. High near 31. Northeast wind around 11 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 2 to 4 inches possible.
Wednesday Night
Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Low around 27. North wind 14 to 17 mph, with gusts as high as 26 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.
Thursday
Snow likely, mainly before 7am. Patchy blowing snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 32. North wind around 18 mph, with gusts as high as 29 mph. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New snow accumulation of less than one inch possible.
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I'll have to be patient...    Should the 18z/18 3KNAM and RGEM verify as cyclically modeled...  what is that 0.5-1.5" powder going to affect your Thu evening commute with temps during any snow generally mid 20s, possibly dropping into the lower 20s.   Again if it snows. 

Snow ratio  modeled 11 or 12 to 1 NYC and near 14 to 1 and west... taking the more conservative NAM 3K.  Wont surprise me to see 3/4S- NYC CP around 5 or 6P. IF its still on in tomorrows modeling we'll look at snow growth.  Definitely very cold thickness so typically that's a smaller flake unless flavored by DGZ growth. 

The ULL at 5H is nice... looks like a 150-170 12 HR HFC crossing the Delmarva Thu afternoon.  

For now... I sit tight on the thread as is.. and we'll see if snows as I think it will, albeit minor though with my first pgh caveat....slippery stretches that would need salting  If the 5H ULL weakens in future modeling over our area, then it is done=no sno and all this has been for naught. Best I can do. 

 

Will check in lager tonight or tomorrow if snow is still a player.  If not a player... I did my best to play it cautious.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

Virginia Beach with up to a foot of snow-what do they average in a season-1 inch?

-

Wednesday
Snow, mainly after 1pm. The snow could be heavy at times. High near 31. Northeast wind around 11 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 2 to 4 inches possible.
Wednesday Night
Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Low around 27. North wind 14 to 17 mph, with gusts as high as 26 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.
Thursday
Snow likely, mainly before 7am. Patchy blowing snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 32. North wind around 18 mph, with gusts as high as 29 mph. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New snow accumulation of less than one inch possible.

5.5" according to this site; also saw their snowiest winter was 42" in 1980.  

https://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/virginia/virginia_beach

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2 hours ago, coastalplainsnowman said:

Exactly.  From that pic it looks to me like that thing is going to hit even further southeast of the benchmark than this Thursday's "storm."  I think we'll be fine.  

So I should plan on 7.5 years of retirement, if I begin October 01, 2025?  I guess that should be enough time...

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25 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

That graphic makes it look like the asteroid is the size of Saudi Arabia, lol - it's actually 177 feet across.  Not sure if Bruce Willis or Robert Duvall will still be around to save us...

Willis is terminally ill, so it's unlikely. Duvall is older than God. But Ben Affleck is still around....

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