February 2025

[EastonSN+]

2 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Are you seriously trying to say that an average temperature of 48 in 10 years feels the same as an average temperature of 32 right now?

Regardless of the incredible amount of disdain I have about *average temperatures*-- there is no more meaningless stat in all of meteorology.

 

No when we hunted woolly mammoths I'm sure it felt way colder than it does today on a negative departure day. 

However a negative departure on a benchmark is a negative departure. It is colder than average there is no debating that.

[LibertyBell]

1 hour ago, EastonSN+ said:

The issue is not the facts, it is we already know it's not as cold as it was in the past. So no knowledge is gained by saying it was colder 40 years ago. What is the point in continually saying it was colder in the past? 

I do find history fascinating though, I believe it was June of 1812 that it's snowed in Boston following a major eruption, I saw a program which said that it was so warm during one period in the Renaissance that they were growing grapes in northern England. All of these are great to learn. However just like the average winter temperature in the 1980s is history, so were the aforementioned events and time frames. 

I mean I am fine with dropping the subject as it's dragged on too long at this point, however, this opens the door to saying this winter would be a torch compared to 1812 or on par with 1256. Basically anybody providing a departure of average to compare it to any point in our past. To me that is information that is not helpful for a monthly weather forum and more akin to a historical monthly forum. 

But we're not just talking about 40 years ago, it was consistently much colder than this, 10, 15 and 20 years ago too.

 

[EastonSN+]

Just now, LibertyBell said:

But we're not just talking about 40 years ago, it was consistently much colder than this, 10, 15 and 20 years ago too.

 

Still does not change the fact that with the current benchmark and New normal it's been a negative departure winter.

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, EastonSN+ said:

No when we hunted woolly mammoths I'm sure it felt way colder than it does today on a negative departure day. 

However a negative departure on a benchmark is a negative departure. It is colder than average there is no debating that.

It was also much colder than this 10, 15, 20 years ago too.  This decade could just be a temporary blip too, maybe it will be much colder again in the 2030s as Ray thinks it will be.

 

[bluewave]

1 hour ago, Rjay said:

Let me put it this way.  This winter was cold but not historically so.  Historically, it was close to an average winter even if it was technically below our current 30 year normals which are increasingly warmer every time they update.  It was cold bc we actually had a real winter this year.  We will very likely never have a top ten cold winter again as long as any of us are alive.  It was nice to see we can still have actual winter temps sustained through most of winter.  I'm really not understanding the confusion or annoyance some seem to have by these facts. 

I think the most impressive feat we had this winter was over 20 days with an inch of snow on the ground in NYC without a 4” snowstorm and only 12.9” of snow. Just an enough small snowfall events spaced out enough to keep a wintry look to the ground for over 20 days. And also no significant cold as NYC only dropped to 10°. Very mid range temperatures with fewer days over 60°and no days under 10°. 

[LibertyBell]

6 minutes ago, bluewave said:

I think the most impressive feat we had this winter was over 20 days with an inch of snow on the ground in NYC without a 4” snowstorm and only 12.9” of snow. Just an enough small snowfall events spaced out enough to keep a wintry look to the ground for over 20 days. And also no significant cold as NYC only dropped to 10°. Very mid range temperatures with fewer days over 60°and no days under 10°. 

Have we ever had a winter with no 60 degree highs ?

[JetsPens87]

To me it actually felt like we had a winter this year. A winter season. I'd rather have this than a one or two week period of 'winter' with a larger storm surrounded by warmth. 

[bluewave]

1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

Have we ever had a winter with no 60 degree highs ?

The only time since 2000 was in 2004.

Time Series Summary for NY CITY CENTRAL PARK, NY - Dec through Feb
Click column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending number of 60° days or warmer 

2024-2025	2
2023-2024	6	0
2022-2023	7	0
2021-2022	8	0
2020-2021	3	0
2019-2020	4	0
2018-2019	4	0
2017-2018	9	0
2016-2017	9	0
2015-2016	16	0
2014-2015	2	0
2013-2014	5	0
2012-2013	3	0
2011-2012	5	0
2010-2011	4	0
2009-2010	1	0
2008-2009	5	0
2007-2008	6	0
2006-2007	3	0
2005-2006	5	0
2004-2005	2	0
2003-2004	0	0

[Rjay]

3 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

To me it actually felt like we had a winter this year. A winter season. I'd rather have this than a one or two week period of 'winter' with a larger storm surrounded by warmth. 

Yup it definitely felt like winter this year but I'm kind of the opposite.  I'd rather it be warm and have 1 large snowstorm than it be cold and rather dry.  But if we take it a step further I'd rather have a 95-96 winter of wall to wall cold and snow.  

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, Rjay said:

Yup it definitely felt like winter this year but I'm kind of the opposite.  I'd rather it be warm and have 1 large snowstorm than it be cold and rather dry.  But if we take it a step further I'd rather have a 95-96 winter of wall to wall cold and snow.  

Yes or 02-03 those were the only wall to wall winters in my lifetime.

[LibertyBell]

8 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

To me it actually felt like we had a winter this year. A winter season. I'd rather have this than a one or two week period of 'winter' with a larger storm surrounded by warmth. 

What if that larger storm is 30 inches plus though?

Is there a threshold where you'd take a multi day supersnowstorm regardless of what happened before or after?

[bluewave]

25 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

To me it actually felt like we had a winter this year. A winter season. I'd rather have this than a one or two week period of 'winter' with a larger storm surrounded by warmth. 

That’s what makes this forum great. We can all come on and discuss what type of weather we like.

I will have to side with Rjay on this one. Would rather have a few record snowstorms and warmth like 15-16 and 16-17 rather than near average historical temperatures and well below normal snowfall. Even if we had extended snowcover.

Obviously a 95-96 package with great snowstorms, extended cold, and extended snowcover would be optimal but is harder to come by these days.
 

[EastonSN+]

16 minutes ago, Rjay said:

Yup it definitely felt like winter this year but I'm kind of the opposite.  I'd rather it be warm and have 1 large snowstorm than it be cold and rather dry.  But if we take it a step further I'd rather have a 95-96 winter of wall to wall cold and snow.  

If it could be 95°, hazy hot and humid 5 days a week followed by a blizzard for 2 days and repeat every week I would be happy. My favorite weather is Florida weather to be honest. The only thing I enjoy about winter are snow events.

[kat5hurricane]

Had a Spring being right around the corner feel today, feels like it's been a long relatively cold winter compared to so many warm winters in the last decade so needless to say that today felt really nice, made me feel more alive. Long story short, bring on Spring.

[NorthShoreWx]

1 hour ago, EastonSN+ said:

If that is your feeling then fine however you have to have the same stance if somebody says on a warm day that this is not really warm because the summer of 1995 had an average temperature which was 2° warmer.

I don't have to.  I'll decide when we get there.  Perception is perception.

[NorthShoreWx]

1 hour ago, EastonSN+ said:

...

Please be conscious of the fact that there is a portion of this audience that does not need to know in a monthly thread that was colder in past times...

 

They are probably happier watching Al Roker than reading here.

[Wannabehippie]

54 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Have we ever had a winter with no 60 degree highs ?

We didn't have a classic "january thaw" when we normally would have gotten a 60 degree high. Do we have an outside shot of getting to 60 this week, so we will have at least one day of a 60 degree high?

 

[bluewave]

5 minutes ago, Wannabehippie said:

We didn't have a classic "january thaw" when we normally would have gotten a 60 degree high. Do we have an outside shot of getting to 60 this week, so we will have at least one day of a 60 degree high?

 

We had 2 days reach 60° back in December. 

[Wannabehippie]

2 minutes ago, bluewave said:

We had 2 days reach 60° back in December. 

I totally forgot about them.

 

[bluewave]

8 minutes ago, Wannabehippie said:

I totally forgot about them.

 

Yeah, it’s been a while not getting a 60° day relative to the last several winters. This was the first time since 2021 with no over 52° days in NYC between 1-1 and 2-23. It’s tough to go over 60° with -5 AO patterns like we had back in 2021 also. If we didn’t get that -AO this month we would have probably had 2 or 3 days reaching 60° already this month. 

[Nibor]

I like when things feel seasonal. I want winter to feel like winter even if that means cold without snow. A blizzard followed by 60s is lame. You can enjoy the warmth 3/4 of the rest of the year. 

[Stormlover74]

I'll take the memorable blizzard over this. Nobody's going to remember anything about this winter 5 years from now. Unless the next 5 years are torches and we're like wow remember the frigid winter of 24-25?

[JetsPens87]

Blizzard that sticks around for awhile? Probably 

Blizzard instantly wiped out by a sea of warmth otherwise? Probably not over this year.

[bluewave]

2 hours ago, EastonSN+ said:

Please be conscious of the fact that there is a portion of this audience that does not need to know in a monthly thread that was colder in past times, if you have respect for this ENTIRE audience like you're stating, then you would know that they do not need this added information to understand history.

Weather records and statistics are an integral part of the online weather and climate community. So maybe I was incorrect to give you the benefit of the doubt in my comment about how quickly people normalize the warmer weather. Sounds more like you are in favor of censoring ideas which in some way don’t match your worldview. 

[LibertyBell]

1 hour ago, JetsPens87 said:

Blizzard that sticks around for awhile? Probably 

Blizzard instantly wiped out by a sea of warmth otherwise? Probably not over this year.

It would be nice if it stuck around for at least a week.  Otherwise we'd have flooding problems with a 30 inch plus snowstorm.

[Stormlover74]

1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

It would be nice if it stuck around for at least a week.  Otherwise we'd have flooding problems with a 30 inch plus snowstorm.

2006 just sort of evaporated

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, EastonSN+ said:

If it could be 95°, hazy hot and humid 5 days a week followed by a blizzard for 2 days and repeat every week I would be happy. My favorite weather is Florida weather to be honest. The only thing I enjoy about winter are snow events.

Florida is boring though, no extremes. 100 degrees dry heat followed by a 2 foot blizzard and below zero is where it's at!

 

[LibertyBell]

Just now, Stormlover74 said:

2006 just sort of evaporated

Yeah, we didn't even have that much snow here, only 13 inches, it was like a glorified lake effect event lol.

I'm thinking more along the lines of January 2016 which was a massive 30 inch plus event across a large area.

 

[LibertyBell]

1 hour ago, bluewave said:

Weather records and statistics are an integral part of the online weather and climate community. So maybe I was incorrect to give you the benefit of the doubt in my comment about how quickly people normalize the warmer weather. Sounds more like you are in favor of censoring ideas which in some way don’t match your worldview. 

But even people who normalize more recent weather should be cognizant of the numbers.  I felt cold this winter and yet I know single digits were never attained and I've experienced several winter months that averaged in the 20s which we did not have at all this season (January averaged around 30.)  Sure it was cold, but nothing extreme or historic.  The wind made it feel worse than it was.

 

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, bluewave said:

That’s what makes this forum great. We can all come on and discuss what type of weather we like.

I will have to side with Rjay on this one. Would rather have a few record snowstorms and warmth like 15-16 and 16-17 rather than near average historical temperatures and well below normal snowfall. Even if we had extended snowcover.

Obviously a 95-96 package with great snowstorms, extended cold, and extended snowcover would be optimal but is harder to come by these days.
 

I would consider 2008-09 a better, colder version of this winter with a happy ending (coastal snowstorm).