February 2025

[donsutherland1]

28 minutes ago, Allsnow said:

@donsutherland1 how similar was this winter to 1989? 
 

obviously warmer but still below avg for starters 

So far, this winter has been colder and snowier than Winter 1988-89 and somewhat colder but somewhat less snowy than Winter 1989-90. It ranks better than both those winters.

[donsutherland1]

10 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

I would rank 1982-83 as a hell of a lot better than this winter, a big 22" HECS and the latest accumulating snowfall on record at JFK 2" on April 20th.

It's close on the scale I use, because cold and snow are weighted equally. 1982-83 was much warmer than the current winter.

[LibertyBell]

Just now, donsutherland1 said:

It's close on the scale I use, because cold and snow are weighted equally. 1982-83 was much warmer than the current winter.

Yes, and the best winter of the 80s.  JFK recorded 30"+ that winter (LGA did too I think?), the only year in the 80s when either recorded 30"+ (NYC itself did not since they undermeasured that storm.)

 

[LibertyBell]

3 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

So far, this winter has been colder and snowier than Winter 1988-89 and somewhat colder but somewhat less snowy than Winter 1989-90. It ranks better than both those winters.

snowier than 88-89 is ironic, lol. I have better memories of this winter than either 1988-89 or 1989-90.  1989-90 had that one shining moment in November though....

PS since we are ranking winters does that storm get added into the calculations, it being a late fall and not winter storm?

 

[donsutherland1]

13 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

snowier than 88-89 is ironic, lol. I have better memories of this winter than either 1988-89 or 1989-90.  1989-90 had that one shining moment in November though....

PS since we are ranking winters does that storm get added into the calculations, it being a late fall and not winter storm?

 

All seasonal snowfall is included.

[bluewave]

We really needed the much warmer 1991-2020 climate normals in order to finally get a colder winter across the area. The 7 station average is currently -0.9° since December 1st. In the old days this would have been an average winter to slightly warmer than average. Reminds me of the cooler summers in recent years which would have been considered a little warmer than the older era climate normals. 
 

EWR….-0.7°

NYC….-1.8°

LGA….-1.6°

JFK…..+0.8°

HPN…..-1.2°

BDR…..-1.2°

ISP……-0.8°

AVG….-0.9°

[EastonSN+]

Just out of curiosity why do we always feel the need to say it was colder in the past over and over again?

This winter felt cold and had great snow retention regardless of what it was in 1980, 1920, or when the woolly mammoths walk the earth. 

I still believe the warmer ocean temps will lead to some pretty epic Winters to come snowfall wise and will help offset they cold dryness of the 1970s through 1980s. 

 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

0.6 inches yesterday enough to whiten up the 3-4 inch snow/ice pack.

30.3 inches for the season and 45 days of snow cover this season and counting.

Last year 30.6 inches for the season and 26 days of snow cover total. 

Normal temperatures for December through February make it feel like I actually experienced winter for the first time in three years.

[Brian5671]

27 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

0.6 inches yesterday enough to whiten up the 3-4 inch snow/ice pack.

30.3 inches for the season and 45 days of snow cover this season and counting.

Last year 30.6 inches for the season and 26 days of snow cover total. 

Normal temperatures for December through February make it feel like I actually experienced winter for the first time in three years.

yeah the last 3 yrs were like extended autumns-lot of cloudy/foggy/damp mild days in there.    Alot of sun this yr in contrast with the cold air

[Stormlover74]

All on all February will end up a very average month. Cold yes but with next week's warmup ewr will possibly end up in positive territory. Close to normal precip and snowfall as well

[eduggs]

37 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

0.6 inches yesterday enough to whiten up the 3-4 inch snow/ice pack.

30.3 inches for the season and 45 days of snow cover this season and counting.

Last year 30.6 inches for the season and 26 days of snow cover total. 

Normal temperatures for December through February make it feel like I actually experienced winter for the first time in three years.

The Hudson Highlands area had an OK winter this year, especially when you factor in a few early season localized light/moderate events and the sustained snowpack. But I drove through parts of Orange and Putnam yesterday and there was a lot of bare ground on southerly, sun-baked aspects and the usual late-winter snowbanks on the sides of roads were largely missing. People were ice fishing out of the lakes, but the vibe was of a low-snow winter.

Down in northern NJ this is the 3rd winter in a row essentially without snow, particularly east of the I-287 terrain boundary. It's been a miserable stretch for snow lovers.

[North and West]

Just out of curiosity why do we always feel the need to say it was colder in the past over and over again?
This winter felt cold and had great snow retention regardless of what it was in 1980, 1920, or when the woolly mammoths walk the earth. 
I still believe the warmer ocean temps will lead to some pretty epic Winters to come snowfall wise and will help offset they cold dryness of the 1970s through 1980s. 
 

I think it’s psychological and a wink wink thing, like, remember how it was before things went bad? Validating yourself with peers/others/people who judge you. (Note that I’m not denying the climate being warmer. This reminds me of juggling personalities at work; I have to allow people on levels below, even, and above me to pontificate throughout status meetings in order for them to be heard in front of colleagues to help move my projects along to reach my personal KPIs and bonus goals in the fiscal.)




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[Allsnow]

22 minutes ago, eduggs said:

The Hudson Highlands area had an OK winter this year, especially when you factor in a few early season localized light/moderate events and the sustained snowpack. But I drove through parts of Orange and Putnam yesterday and there was a lot of bare ground on southerly, sun-baked aspects and the usual late-winter snowbanks on the sides of roads were largely missing. People were ice fishing out of the lakes, but the vibe was of a low-snow winter.

Down in northern NJ this is the 3rd winter in a row essentially without snow, particularly east of the I-287 terrain boundary. It's been a miserable stretch for snow lovers.

Someone sold their soul for February 2021 in that area 

[EastonSN+]

29 minutes ago, North and West said:

I think it’s psychological and a wink wink thing, like, remember how it was before things went bad? Validating yourself with peers/others/people who judge you. (Note that I’m not denying the climate being warmer. This reminds me of juggling personalities at work; I have to allow people on levels below, even, and above me to pontificate throughout status meetings in order for them to be heard in front of colleagues to help move my projects along to reach my personal KPIs and bonus goals in the fiscal.)




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I just don't think it holds any value to caveat that it was colder in the past. For instance if a reader looked and saw that we are below average temperature wise I don't think they would say well I wonder if we would still be below average 200 years ago (exaggeration).

The 30-year averages take care of themselves as they adjust as the decades roll on so there's really no need to compare to the past which is just that the past.

It's kind of like saying well the Yankees won the world series this year with a great hitting team however this Yankee lineup is nowhere near the 1927 lineup. What's the point in stating it?

[North and West]

I just don't think it holds any value to caveat that it was colder in the past. For instance if a reader looked and saw that we are below average temperature wise I don't think they would say well I wonder if we would still be below average 200 years ago (exaggeration).
The 30-year averages take care of themselves as they adjust as the decades roll on so there's really no need to compare to the past which is just that the past.

Good point on the thirty year. It states the obvious background.


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[eduggs]

The Feb 28 - March 3 period is still worth watching. There's a tendency to amplify the flow for successive waves with marginal cold air and a modestly favorable longwave pattern. The 12z ICON, CMC, UK, and EC-AI show significant coastal storms during this period, though with mostly non-frozen precipitation. As usual, the nuances of wave interaction will be key to determining if we can sneak anything wintry out of it.

[bluewave]

1 hour ago, EastonSN+ said:

The 30-year averages take care of themselves as they adjust as the decades roll on so there's really no need to compare to the past which is just that the past.

30 year temperature averages began to be used when we had a stable climate. So you could look at a departure and know whether it was actually warmer or colder. In a rapidly warming climate each 10 year update masks the warming process. This is why rankings make more sense. It takes larger and larger cold departures to get a top 10 or top 20 coldest month and a smaller positive departure for a top 10 or top 20 warmest month. 
It’s why the Northeast has had over 50 top 10 warmest months since 2010 and only 1 top 10 coldest. By just looking at the 1991-2020 departures you would miss this key distinction. So we should probably just use the 1951-1980 base period in order for the rankings to match the departures like NASA does.

 

 

[winterwx21]

After last night's half inch we're at 15 inches for the season here. Hopefully we're not done. I know there's some cold air in the long range for early March, so there's some hope.

But in the meantime I'm looking forward to finally getting some warmer temps next week. 50s will feel great after this week's very cold weather. The wind chill today is brutal. 

[mattinpa]

10 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

After last night's half inch we're at 15 inches for the season here. Hopefully we're not done. I know there's some cold air in the long range for early March, so there's some hope.

But in the meantime I'm looking forward to finally getting some warmer temps next week. 50s will feel great after this week's very cold weather. The wind chill today is brutal. 

I’m a winter fan and it goes by too quickly but I agree - ready for a break. Been sick for a while and the warm will help. Then would like one last winter storm before spring stays,

[EastonSN+]

15 minutes ago, bluewave said:

30 year temperature averages began to be used when we had a stable climate. So you could look at a departure and know whether it was actually warmer or colder. In a rapidly warming climate each 10 year update masks the warming process. This is why rankings make more sense. It takes larger and larger cold departures to get a top 10 or top 20 coldest month and a smaller positive departure for a top 10 or top 20 warmest month. 
It’s why the Northeast has had over 50 top 10 warmest months since 2010 and only 1 top 10 coldest. By just looking at the 1991-2020 departures you would miss this key distinction. So we should probably just use the 1951-1980 base period in order for the rankings to match the departures like NASA does.

 

 

Why not just post temperature departures against a 10-year average then? Just don't see the benefit of continually pointing out that a departure now is different than a departure then, as it's in the past.

[JustinRP37]

How do people on here not enjoy nice cold mornings? You feel invigorated when you take that deep breath in. Very weird how once we get to February some are just like naw let's torch. Spring is our most miserable season here from super hot to cold to many many days of cloudy and gloom with mist and 40 degrees. I'm an extreme guy give me winter and summer. I'm glad Killington's snowiest month is March and they are already ahead of Park City for snowfall this year. I think I need to move further north.

[NorthShoreWx]

3 hours ago, EastonSN+ said:

Just out of curiosity why do we always feel the need to say it was colder in the past over and over again?

This winter felt cold and had great snow retention regardless of what it was in 1980, 1920, or when the woolly mammoths walk the earth. 

I still believe the warmer ocean temps will lead to some pretty epic Winters to come snowfall wise and will help offset they cold dryness of the 1970s through 1980s. 

 

Because the past we are speaking of is very recent and part of our experience for those of us pre Gen Z.

Maybe warming will go on forever (and maybe it won't), but the new "normals" aren't normal and they have a short history.

[EastonSN+]

12 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

Because the past we are speaking of is very recent and part of our experience for those of us pre Gen Z.

Maybe warming will go on forever (and maybe it won't), but the new "normals" aren't normal and they have a short history.

So then why not use a 50-year average as a baseline or 100 year average? 

I just don't get the point of continuously caveating that it was something different in the past as that is the past it does not affect the present. It's either warmer or colder compared to a certain baseline. If someone has to put in extra work to continue to say "but in the past this would have happened" then it's not efficient. If a 30-year baseline is not correct because someone has to keep caveating over and over again then something needs to change. Either change the baseline to be shorter like 10 years to be more relevant to the current time or expand the baseline so that someone doesn't have to continually say over and over again that it was different in the past. 

I just don't see the added value of caveating that it was different in the past than a current departure from average.

[Dark Star]

5 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

I enjoyed every little snowfall, too.

I'm a Greedy Duck

[North and West]

How do people on here not enjoy nice cold mornings? You feel invigorated when you take that deep breath in. Very weird how once we get to February some are just like naw let's torch. Spring is our most miserable season here from super hot to cold to many many days of cloudy and gloom with mist and 40 degrees. I'm an extreme guy give me winter and summer. I'm glad Killington's snowiest month is March and they are already ahead of Park City for snowfall this year. I think I need to move further north.

Misery loves company.


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[vegan_edible]

50 minutes ago, JustinRP37 said:

How do people on here not enjoy nice cold mornings? You feel invigorated when you take that deep breath in. Very weird how once we get to February some are just like naw let's torch. Spring is our most miserable season here from super hot to cold to many many days of cloudy and gloom with mist and 40 degrees. I'm an extreme guy give me winter and summer. I'm glad Killington's snowiest month is March and they are already ahead of Park City for snowfall this year. I think I need to move further north.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20364651

[bluewave]

1 hour ago, EastonSN+ said:

Why not just post temperature departures against a 10-year average then? Just don't see the benefit of continually pointing out that a departure now is different than a departure then, as it's in the past.

Because a recent 10 year average would mask the warming even more since the base state is so much higher than it used to be. January was only considered cold here since we moved the goal posts to make it easier to get a colder month. If we left the original climo in place, then it would have been a warmer January in the Northeast.

 

[JustinRP37]

20 minutes ago, North and West said:

Misery loves company.


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I'm not miserable and judging by how skiing and snowboarding is growing rapidly I think there are more and more winter lovers. Plenty of climates to enjoy in the country. I always ask people why live where you are miserable? 

 

16 minutes ago, vegan_edible said:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20364651

Plenty of places to live without seasons. Phoenix being a popular destination without humidity and clouds! Also still close to epic skiing. 

[MorristownWx]

Since we have the discussion about cold averages over the past 10/30/50 years every single time there is a storm and even when there isn’t, maybe it would be helpful to create a thread specifically to talk about temperature anomaly’s/norms/history, etc. 

It would still allow those who want to beat the horse to death the forum to do so, and would allow those of us who want to focus on upcoming/current weather to not have to sift through pages of people bickering over whether a winter was cold or not. 
 

I get it’s a weather forum, but a simple solution and compromise would be to open a thread to talk about historical comparisons. 
 

thoughts? 

[SI Mailman]

I’ve been carrying mail since before the 2013-14 winter. I break out different layers depending on how cold it is. I’ve only had to break out my extreme cold sub 20 degrees outfit once this winter, but I feel like I’ve worn my 20s and 30s gear every single day these last 2 months with little to no break