2024-2025 Ski season Thread

[powderfreak]

15 hours ago, CCHurricane said:

Mount Mansfield Snow Stake reporting 12 inches of snow? That can't be correct...is it?

Would be an a record high for this early in the year, dating back to 1954.

It was legit.  We got 14-15” in two days.  Settled to 12” on the ground.

[DavisStraight]

4 hours ago, powderfreak said:

It was legit.  We got 14-15” in two days.  Settled to 12” on the ground.

Beautiful site, you're lucky to be living up there, I'll be further north next year but not as far as where you area.

[CCHurricane]

On 10/17/2024 at 2:58 PM, powderfreak said:

It was legit.  We got 14-15” in two days.  Settled to 12” on the ground.

awesome stuff, thanks for the confirm! Hopefully a sign of winter to come...

[tamarack]

On 10/17/2024 at 7:42 PM, DavisStraight said:

Beautiful site, you're lucky to be living up there, I'll be further north next year but not as far as where you area.

Where are you moving to?  Hope it's not south coastal Maine - might get less snow there than at your current location.  

[DavisStraight]

3 hours ago, tamarack said:

Where are you moving to?  Hope it's not south coastal Maine - might get less snow there than at your current location.  

haha, it is but my sisters been there 20 years and almost always gets more than me. I like that I'm closer to the mountains and beaches. Just met the builder today and had preliminary plans drawn up.

[DavisStraight]

5 hours ago, tamarack said:

Where are you moving to?  Hope it's not south coastal Maine - might get less snow there than at your current location.  

We're moving to Cape Neddick, I guess in retirement I'll be a Mainer, or is it Maniac?

[tamarack]

16 hours ago, DavisStraight said:

We're moving to Cape Neddick, I guess in retirement I'll be a Mainer, or is it Maniac?

We moved to Maine in January of 1973 but we're still "from away".  One of the worst things a "flatlander" (yet another epithet for those born in another state) can do is to pretend one is a Mainer.
However, I've almost never had any such terms thrown my way - folks have been quite accepting.  

PWM normal 1991-2020 is 68.8".  However, the most recent 5 winters have failed to reach 60, though 2017-18 had 92.4.  Cape Neddick is 1/3 of the way from PWM to BOX, so perhaps 10% (?) lower snowfall.

[tunafish]

6 minutes ago, tamarack said:

We moved to Maine in January of 1973 but we're still "from away".  One of the worst things a "flatlander" (yet another epithet for those born in another state) can do is to pretend one is a Mainer.
However, I've almost never had any such terms thrown my way - folks have been quite accepting.  

PWM normal 1991-2020 is 68.8".  However, the most recent 5 winters have failed to reach 60, though 2017-18 had 92.4.  Cape Neddick is 1/3 of the way from PWM to BOX, so perhaps 10% (?) lower snowfall.

Moved here in 2003 (from the town next to Davis, actually).  Been here over half my life now, still considered "from away" (even despite all 4 grandparents being generational Mainers).  I've always thought being a Mainer is more about your attitude, and way of life, rather than where you were born.

I'm not sure how good the SN data from PSM is, but that'd be a better proxy for Cape Neddick than PWM.

Since this is the ski thread, I'll mention that the nearest ski area is 10 minutes away in South Berwick - Powderhouse Hill.  The smallest ski area in Maine.  $5 Cash only.  From their website.  The bolded line is funny and accurate.  Take a look at the parking lots at Sugarloaf and Sunday River and luxury SUVs make up, conservatively, 60% of vehicles.

 

Powderhouse Hill is a small, volunteer-run ski area located in South Berwick, Maine. The single, 800 foot long rope tow takes about 40 seconds to reach the top of the hill (and probably less than that to get down). The tow is uniquely powered by a converted 1938 Ford pickup truck that is encased by a shed at the top. Powderhouse is a throwback to the early days of skiing in New England, before snowmaking, high speed chairs, and $100 lift tickets made skiing accessible only to those with deep pockets and luxury SUVs. Powderhouse Hill has no snowmaking a

bility so it relies on natural snow to be open during the season. Locals know to check their Facebook page to see if the hill is open on any given day during ski season. Open days are celebrated by the faithful.

 

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, tunafish said:

Moved here in 2003 (from the town next to Davis, actually).  Been here over half my life now, still considered "from away" (even despite all 4 grandparents being generational Mainers).  I've always thought being a Mainer is more about your attitude, and way of life, rather than where you were born.

I'm not sure how good the SN data from PSM is, but that'd be a better proxy for Cape Neddick than PWM.

Since this is the ski thread, I'll mention that the nearest ski area is 10 minutes away in South Berwick - Powderhouse Hill.  The smallest ski area in Maine.  $5 Cash only.  From their website.  The bolded line is funny and accurate.  Take a look at the parking lots at Sugarloaf and Sunday River and luxury SUVs make up, conservatively, 60% of vehicles.

 

Powderhouse Hill is a small, volunteer-run ski area located in South Berwick, Maine. The single, 800 foot long rope tow takes about 40 seconds to reach the top of the hill (and probably less than that to get down). The tow is uniquely powered by a converted 1938 Ford pickup truck that is encased by a shed at the top. Powderhouse is a throwback to the early days of skiing in New England, before snowmaking, high speed chairs, and $100 lift tickets made skiing accessible only to those with deep pockets and luxury SUVs. Powderhouse Hill has no snowmaking a

bility so it relies on natural snow to be open during the season. Locals know to check their Facebook page to see if the hill is open on any given day during ski season. Open days are celebrated by the faithful.

 

When we lived in Fort Kent, the Lonesome Pine area had only a rope tow.  As long as there were a good number of skiers on the rope, the 2,000' with 500' vertical wasn't too bad.  However, in the low snow winter of 1979-80 weather played catch-up in March, and on a screechingly windy Saturday after 30" in 10 days, there were very few on the slopes.  The rope had worn a deep groove in the new snow and with no one else to share the rope, it was dragging out of the groove about 3 feet from my tips - felt like the rope weighed a ton.
The wind blew the doctor from St. Francis off the narrower of the 2 trails, and as I passed him, I heard his call.  He'd injured his knee and though he probably could've skied down, he thought it wiser to ask for a ride.  I went down and alerted ski patrol and rode the rope again.  By the time I reached the bottom, the place was closed for safety reasons.  The following Monday evening we foresters drove to PQI for a forestry meeting and had to detour 100' east of Rt 1 for about 1/3 mile as the massive drifts from Saturday were still being dug out.  Only time I've driven thru a potato field.

[DavisStraight]

1 hour ago, tunafish said:

Moved here in 2003 (from the town next to Davis, actually).  Been here over half my life now, still considered "from away" (even despite all 4 grandparents being generational Mainers).  I've always thought being a Mainer is more about your attitude, and way of life, rather than where you were born.

I'm not sure how good the SN data from PSM is, but that'd be a better proxy for Cape Neddick than PWM.

Since this is the ski thread, I'll mention that the nearest ski area is 10 minutes away in South Berwick - Powderhouse Hill.  The smallest ski area in Maine.  $5 Cash only.  From their website.  The bolded line is funny and accurate.  Take a look at the parking lots at Sugarloaf and Sunday River and luxury SUVs make up, conservatively, 60% of vehicles.

 

Powderhouse Hill is a small, volunteer-run ski area located in South Berwick, Maine. The single, 800 foot long rope tow takes about 40 seconds to reach the top of the hill (and probably less than that to get down). The tow is uniquely powered by a converted 1938 Ford pickup truck that is encased by a shed at the top. Powderhouse is a throwback to the early days of skiing in New England, before snowmaking, high speed chairs, and $100 lift tickets made skiing accessible only to those with deep pockets and luxury SUVs. Powderhouse Hill has no snowmaking a

bility so it relies on natural snow to be open during the season. Locals know to check their Facebook page to see if the hill is open on any given day during ski season. Open days are celebrated by the faithful.

 

We had a place just like that in Woodstock, CT when I was a kid growing up, learned to ski there. Only had the rope tow and it would take a minute to get to the bottom of the hill and then ski over to the rope tow. The rope tow seemed tough for some people to use, people used to fall on the way up and fall on their face when they first grabbed the rope, fun times, I think the name was Ohoho, wonder of PF was old enough to remember it.

[NW_of_GYX]

Coastal maine is meh for snow, even central maine is not orders of magnitude greater than say central Mass. you have to get off the CP into the foothills, highlands, mountains or north of Bangor for the difference in snowfall vs CNE/SNE to be pronounced. 
 

Maine still has a great local ski scene though, even outside of those better snow areas. Lost Valley, Abram, Black, Snow Bowl, Spruce, Big Squaw, Big Rock, Hermon, Jefferson, Lonesome Pines are all great hills where the blue collar spirit of the sport is alive and doing OK. To a lesser extent you could also include Pleasant and Saddleback to that list. Pleasant at night is still about as blue collar as it gets for the sport. Winterkids is an incredible local nonprofit helping kids and families from all over Maine access the sport and LLBean underwrites tix to Black and Abram where it costs $35 every day of the season. Vermont has better skiing but the culture here in Maine is closer to the sports past when it was for working people not just yuppies and retirees. 

[powderfreak]

8 hours ago, DavisStraight said:

We had a place just like that in Woodstock, CT when I was a kid growing up, learned to ski there. Only had the rope tow and it would take a minute to get to the bottom of the hill and then ski over to the rope tow. The rope tow seemed tough for some people to use, people used to fall on the way up and fall on their face when they first grabbed the rope, fun times, I think the name was Ohoho, wonder of PF was old enough to remember it.

Definitely have no memories of that ski area.  But back then when I was growing up, the "camps" or cottages the family had in Woodstock were not winterized and we always drained the water and locked them up for the season... so for most of my childhood I would spend June-August in Woodstock but then we wouldn't come back after a final weekend in October.  So I never was around in the winter back then.

[tunafish]

30 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Maine still has a great local ski scene though, even outside of those better snow areas. Lost Valley, Abram, Black, Snow Bowl, Spruce, Big Squaw, Big Rock, Hermon, Jefferson, Lonesome Pines are all great hills where the blue collar spirit of the sport is alive and doing OK. To a lesser extent you could also include Pleasant and Saddleback to that list. Pleasant at night is still about as blue collar as it gets for the sport. Winterkids is an incredible local nonprofit helping kids and families from all over Maine access the sport and LLBean underwrites tix to Black and Abram where it costs $35 every day of the season. Vermont has better skiing but the culture here in Maine is closer to the sports past when it was for working people not just yuppies and retirees. 

Great post.  I'm very much a casual skier but I'd rather go to Pleasant (at night) and Mt. Abram than anywhere else.  Best bang for your buck for anyone living in PWM.  Throw Lost Valley on that list, too, but I am selective about when I go there because it can get too crowded.

[powderfreak]

38 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Coastal maine is meh for snow, even central maine is not orders of magnitude greater than say central Mass. you have to get off the CP into the foothills, highlands, mountains or north of Bangor for the difference in snowfall vs CNE/SNE to be pronounced. 
 

Maine still has a great local ski scene though, even outside of those better snow areas. Lost Valley, Abram, Black, Snow Bowl, Spruce, Big Squaw, Big Rock, Hermon, Jefferson, Lonesome Pines are all great hills where the blue collar spirit of the sport is alive and doing OK. To a lesser extent you could also include Pleasant and Saddleback to that list. Pleasant at night is still about as blue collar as it gets for the sport. Winterkids is an incredible local nonprofit helping kids and families from all over Maine access the sport and LLBean underwrites tix to Black and Abram where it costs $35 every day of the season. Vermont has better skiing but the culture here in Maine is closer to the sports past when it was for working people not just yuppies and retirees. 

Back when I was at UVM, I took a course on non-profit recreation and we went to Maine for a week to travel around the state checking out some of those local community hills.  The focus was on the Maine Winter Sports Center, and it was an awesome scene checking out places from Black Mountain to Big Rock in Mars Hill.  Big Rock was an awesome little ski area that rips.... 1,000 verts of fall-line terrain, I remember loving that spot way up on the NE Canadian border.

It was easy to get behind their mission statement and see that there are so many organizations in Maine that are dedicated to using winter sports to promote a healthy lifestyle in the cold, dark winter months and economic stability.  A big part of the MWSC then was trying to confront the childhood obesity and issues that arise when rural kids are stuck inside for multiple winter months in a row, without the economic means to get winter sports equipment and access to recreate (and therefore better themselves, in physical and mental health).

The Maine Winter Sports Center (MWSC) is a 501(c)3 non-profit, economic development corporation, founded in April 1999 with a grant from the Libra Foundation in Portland, Maine. Our mission is to re-establish skiing as a life-style in Maine for lifestyle and economic opportunity for rural communities of the state. Our assets include world class cross country and biathlon venues in Fort Kent and Presque Isle, Big Rock Alpine area in Mars Hill and Quoggy Jo Alpine area in Presque Isle, Maine.

[NW_of_GYX]

10 hours ago, powderfreak said:

 

The Maine Winter Sports Center (MWSC) is a 501(c)3 non-profit, economic development corporation, founded in April 1999 with a grant from the Libra Foundation in Portland, Maine. Our mission is to re-establish skiing as a life-style in Maine for lifestyle and economic opportunity for rural communities of the state. Our assets include world class cross country and biathlon venues in Fort Kent and Presque Isle, Big Rock Alpine area in Mars Hill and Quoggy Jo Alpine area in Presque Isle, Maine.

MWSC went through a rough patch about 5-6 years ago when they lost funding from Libra. Someone else might know the story better than I but I think it transitioned into what’s now called Outdoor Sport Institute and the assets are all stand alone 501c3. Andy Shepard was involved for a while before moving over to Saddleback and now to Black NH with Indy trying to turn it into a co op. The non profit model is the way forward for these places. It’s gotta be mission driven charitable work because making money is next to impossible for places like these. 
 

There are other even more grass roots examples. In my area there are two Nordic “centers” that offer free access and free gear to anyone and everyone. If you want a glimpse into the community driven past of Maines winter sports scene, watch “the town that moved a mountain.” I think it’s on yt. Really enjoyable. 

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, NW_of_GYX said:

“the town that moved a mountain.”

I saw that on our local PBS affiliate a few months ago.  That was a great piece.

[NW_of_GYX]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

I saw that on our local PBS affiliate a few months ago.  That was a great piece.

It’s not that old but I imagine most of the older folks featured have passed now. those are the people who literally built the sport with their bare hands. I’m a “young” guy but have been fortunate to learn from and ski with legends, some of the guys from the Greg stump era are still quietly skiing in NNE. The business of skiing has evolved for better or worse but it’s the local communities and inter generational friendships that still make it special. Another great watch along these lines is “freeland a white grass story”

[tamarack]

15 hours ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Coastal maine is meh for snow, even central maine is not orders of magnitude greater than say central Mass. you have to get off the CP into the foothills, highlands, mountains or north of Bangor for the difference in snowfall vs CNE/SNE to be pronounced. 
 

Maine still has a great local ski scene though, even outside of those better snow areas. Lost Valley, Abram, Black, Snow Bowl, Spruce, Big Squaw, Big Rock, Hermon, Jefferson, Lonesome Pines are all great hills where the blue collar spirit of the sport is alive and doing OK. To a lesser extent you could also include Pleasant and Saddleback to that list. Pleasant at night is still about as blue collar as it gets for the sport. Winterkids is an incredible local nonprofit helping kids and families from all over Maine access the sport and LLBean underwrites tix to Black and Abram where it costs $35 every day of the season. Vermont has better skiing but the culture here in Maine is closer to the sports past when it was for working people not just yuppies and retirees. 

I'd add Titcomb Hill in Farmington, owned by the town and run mainly by volunteers - only 300' vertical but the T-bar is only 1300' and the hill's midsection is ~35%, steep enough for a good slalom course.  there are X-C trails connected as well.  Mount Blue HS trains there in both disciplines and they win more than their share of trophies in the state races.

[NW_of_GYX]

16 minutes ago, tamarack said:

I'd add Titcomb Hill in Farmington, owned by the town and run mainly by volunteers - only 300' vertical but the T-bar is only 1300' and the hill's midsection is ~35%, steep enough for a good slalom course.  there are X-C trails connected as well.  Mount Blue HS trains there in both disciplines and they win more than their share of trophies in the state races.

Yes, that’s another one! Baker in Moscow too. 

[MarkO]

I gotta give Waterville credit. They're going poundtown while Killington looks on. Made a couple turns. Day 1 is in the books.

https://www.waterville.com/cams-summit

[alex]

Bretton Woods has been making snow too but honestly I kinda don’t get it. It’s going to be 70 in 2 days, why bother?

[mreaves]

9 minutes ago, alex said:

Bretton Woods has been making snow too but honestly I kinda don’t get it. It’s going to be 70 in 2 days, why bother?

I assume places are testing equipment and system capabilities but I know very little about ski area snowmaking policy.

[alex]

7 minutes ago, mreaves said:

I assume places are testing equipment and system capabilities but I know very little about ski area snowmaking policy.

I had that thought too - but I would think testing would be for an hour maybe, not an entire day - but I have noooo idea 

[bwt3650]

Killington cited "snowmaking pond temperatures" and "ground temperatures" as one of the reasons they aren't making snow yet on their website.  I didn't know that was a thing...I kinda don't buy the ground temperature reasoning.  If it was in the teens on that north ridge last night and tonight like it was/is, I find it hard to believe snow being blown into single digit wetbulbs would have an issue with ground temps...but the snowmaking pond temp sounds plausible I guess?? I think if they wanted to open those north ridge trails, they could....not saying it's a smart business decision nor would I expect it, with the impending warmth.

[MarkO]

Last time I checked, the north ridge cam showed snow on the ground, lol. But anyway's small window and many warm days ahead. I hope Killington can pull off the FIS race for Thanksgiving weekend.

[bwt3650]

15 hours ago, MarkO said:

Last time I checked, the north ridge cam showed snow on the ground, lol. But anyway's small window and many warm days ahead. I hope Killington can pull off the FIS race for Thanksgiving weekend.

great point.  there's still snow on the ground even this morning, so I don't believe the ground temp reasoning.  I don't fault them for not going for it with the forecast, but I'd like to know if the snowmaking pond temps and ground temps are a real thing or just a bs excuse.  I don't think anyone would fault them with the forecast, but I'm not a fan of bs if that's the case...though I could be 100 percent wrong.

[powderfreak]

17 hours ago, alex said:

Bretton Woods has been making snow too but honestly I kinda don’t get it. It’s going to be 70 in 2 days, why bother?

Training staff, stress testing the system, giving staff a full 12 hour shift of work to see how things go… variety of reasons to do it.

[powderfreak]

17 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

Killington cited "snowmaking pond temperatures" and "ground temperatures" as one of the reasons they aren't making snow yet on their website.  I didn't know that was a thing...I kinda don't buy the ground temperature reasoning.  If it was in the teens on that north ridge last night and tonight like it was/is, I find it hard to believe snow being blown into single digit wetbulbs would have an issue with ground temps...but the snowmaking pond temp sounds plausible I guess?? I think if they wanted to open those north ridge trails, they could....not saying it's a smart business decision nor would I expect it, with the impending warmth.

I think the key part of the statement was "a longer window of sustained cold temperatures to start making snow".... snowmaking pond temperatures definitely matter, intake temps.  Ground temps, eh?

I think it's just the forecasted warmth and if I'm Killington, I know that when I turn on the snow guns, people start looking for an opening day announcement any time and they knew it wasn't going to happen.  Whoever has their ear for weather forecasting also plays a big role (I have some experience here, ha).  If that person is pessimistic with warmth coming, and head of Ops trusts that individual, that can sway it pretty easily.  They are waiting for their trusted confidant to say, "yes, its go time and it can be done based on what I see."

My guess is they just didn't want to ignite the "opening day???" frenzy given the upcoming pattern.  I also think as IKON and EPIC passes have made skiing more mainstream, the idea of opening for a day or two and then closing down is not a path they want to go down.  As hardcore skiers we all understand it... but there are a LOT of less informed skiers and riders that see the opening announcement and then don't bother checking again (sort of like a theme park, park opens and then stays open daily).  Those folks start arriving at the mountain looking to ski only to find out the mountain has been closed for three days and likely won't reopen for another week or two.  I think those days of opening just to open and then close are likely coming to a close.  You open when you know you can stay open.

[MarkO]

I think Waterville has a contract with the US bordercross team for early season training. I'm sure they're funding at least part of the bill for the early season snowmaking, the BBTS ski school probably chips in a little too. I think it's kind of a win/win, but they don't open up the trails on High Country to season pass holders which kinda sucks. I've wondered why, for many years, that they didn't take advantage of the altitude of the base elevation of the High Country lift at about 3450'.

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, MarkO said:

I think Waterville has a contract with the US bordercross team for early season training. I'm sure they're funding at least part of the bill for the early season snowmaking, the BBTS ski school probably chips in a little too. I think it's kind of a win/win, but they don't open up the trails on High Country to season pass holders which kinda sucks. I've wondered why, for many years, that they didn't take advantage of the altitude of the base elevation of the High Country lift at about 3450'.

Ah that explains it.  I thought it was interesting they were making snow up on the T-bar, but it's also the highest terrain.  Good test/practice run for the snowmaking team.  Ski academies and high-level ski/snowboard training programs have moved more and more towards supporting (financially) ski areas opening the training terrain earlier and earlier.  Staff training, system stress test (aka blowing out the mice), and having it subsidized a bit... send it.

GMVS/Sugarbush... MMSC/Stowe... CVA/Sugarloaf... there are several out there, Waterville is known for ski racing too in the region.