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Winter 2024-25 Discussion/Speculation


CAPE
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6 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

Part of me thinks everyone is going to call for a rinse & repeat outlook of the past few years, only to miss something and it ends up decent.

At some point maybe we will luck into a decent season (defined down this way as a 2-3 week span of chances), but it feels like the predictability of that is gonna be nil. Just random luck anymore. 

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6 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

Part of me thinks everyone is going to call for a rinse & repeat outlook of the past few years, only to miss something and it ends up decent.

To me, the one "decent" nina post 2016 was the nickel-and-dime winter of 2017-18 where we got 18 inches or so. That year was funny because most of the 1-2 inchers came right during the morning rush and the schools burned through all their snow days despite the small amounts, hahaha 

I'm my unscientific opinion (yes I have no shortage of those), that would be the top end of possibilities.

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4 hours ago, Maestrobjwa said:

To me, the one "decent" nina post 2016 was the nickel-and-dime winter of 2017-18 where we got 18 inches or so. That year was funny because most of the 1-2 inchers came right during the morning rush and the schools burned through all their snow days despite the small amounts, hahaha 

I'm my unscientific opinion (yes I have no shortage of those), that would be the top end of possibilities.

That was a good Nina winter, esp the beach blizzard chase. The 2021-22 Nina was better in my yard, with 3 Jan snowstorms, including snow on snow. Right around 20" for the month. Plus I identified the potential for the early Jan storm weeks before when we were mired in the 'shit the blinds' pattern with no apparent end in sight. Was fun to track from LR to short range, to it actually coming to fruition- although it left PSU land high and dry. :yikes:

Not much of anything snow-wise before or after that over here though. Some bad luck in Feb. That was an epic Jan by today's standards, so that winter goes down as a big win.

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12 hours ago, WEATHER53 said:

More of the  same seems likely . Probably not as radical but still just 10-15” stuff and temps +2. 

 

 Do you still collaborate with Keith Allen? I still remember you regularly talking about him and many folks here were thus always eagerly anticipating your posts passing along his thoughts.

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11 hours ago, GaWx said:

 Do you still collaborate with Keith Allen? I still remember you regularly talking about him and many folks here were thus always eagerly anticipating your posts passing along his thoughts.

He stopped publicizing it. Yes talk a lot still. Winters are screwier  than ever. 

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On 8/26/2024 at 11:15 PM, WEATHER53 said:

More of the  same seems likely . Probably not as radical but still just 10-15” stuff and temps +2. 

 

I would give real money for a nice 8" - 12" of snow starting around sun rise Christmas Day with temps staying below normal through New Years.

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19 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said:

I would give real money for a nice 8" - 12" of snow starting around sun rise Christmas Day with temps staying below normal through New Years.

My wife would probably divorce me for the price I’d pay for that…

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1 hour ago, Eskimo Joe said:

I would give real money for a nice 8" - 12" of snow starting around sun rise Christmas Day with temps staying below normal through New Years.

December isn’t a winter month.  You will have to wait until March 34th for your 8”+

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If we get an h5 pattern similar to this, with the Aleutian ridge more poleward and the suggestion of periodic -EPO episodes, we could end up with a good few weeks to a month of actual winter similar to Jan 2022. The other thing you like to see in a Nina is a somewhat southward displaced/stretched TPV. Occasional cold air pressing southward in the flow between the EPO ridge and TPV in a gradient pattern with a well timed wave is a pretty straight forward path to victory for our area in a Nina.

 

nina2222222222.thumb.png.7825b5a0e8cbdb9f544bfb964e3579e4.png

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1 hour ago, Deck Pic said:

Hey H****d.  Looks reasonable to me. 

Hi M*t*
How are things and any changes of interest?

I’m retired  and being  a granddaddy and find winter models more disgusting than ever 
202-589-1212 and  be in The Know

Do you still see R**dy?

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14 hours ago, CAPE said:

If we get an h5 pattern similar to this, with the Aleutian ridge more poleward and the suggestion of periodic -EPO episodes, we could end up with a good few weeks to a month of actual winter similar to Jan 2022. The other thing you like to see in a Nina is a somewhat southward displaced/stretched TPV. Occasional cold air pressing southward in the flow between the EPO ridge and TPV in a gradient pattern with a well timed wave is a pretty straight forward path to victory for our area in a Nina.

 

nina2222222222.thumb.png.7825b5a0e8cbdb9f544bfb964e3579e4.png

The Cansips looks pretty good, too.

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8 hours ago, SnowenOutThere said:

March to remember??? Personally already tossing the first 3 "winter" months and placing full trust in CFS (which obviously has never led me astray before)

 

cfs2.png

cfs.png

Might play out something like 2018. Early Jan bomb cyclone courtesy of an impressive +PNA/-EPO ridge with cross polar flow, followed by a  late winter -NAO episode with a non hostile Pacific, resulting in a mid March SECS.

Composite Plot

 

Composite Plot

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11 minutes ago, CAPE said:

Might play out something like 2018. Early Jan bomb cyclone courtesy of an impressive +PNA/-EPO ridge with cross polar flow, followed by a  late winter -NAO episode with a non hostile Pacific, resulting in a mid March SECS.

Composite Plot

 

Composite Plot

I mean you had a pretty impressive lead time with the original cape storm but this just seems cocky! Actually though, that's a very intriguing possibility and you will get full naming rights when (not if) this happens. 

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On 8/28/2024 at 5:53 PM, CAPE said:

If we get an h5 pattern similar to this, with the Aleutian ridge more poleward and the suggestion of periodic -EPO episodes, we could end up with a good few weeks to a month of actual winter similar to Jan 2022. The other thing you like to see in a Nina is a somewhat southward displaced/stretched TPV. Occasional cold air pressing southward in the flow between the EPO ridge and TPV in a gradient pattern with a well timed wave is a pretty straight forward path to victory for our area in a Nina.

 

nina2222222222.thumb.png.7825b5a0e8cbdb9f544bfb964e3579e4.png

We could luck into a 2018/2022 type Nina with that look.  But that’s kinda the high bar until the larger scale pac pattern completely flips imo, and I don’t mean enso. 

Even when we’ve had a decent period of forcing and a good upstream long wave pattern  there has been a tendency for the overall warmth to just overwhelm the pattern in the east more often than not. 
 

Yea that long wave pattern isn’t bad in terms of the configuration, but again look at the overall heights all over, looks like it’s advertising more of what we’ve had for 8 years. Warm dominating 75% with small pockets of colder and mostly not at our latitude and elevation. 

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I also totally admit I’m way less enthused because up here it’s pretty impossible to get close to climo trying to luck into a couple progressive waves, and that’s a pretty much the only path to snow in that look. 
 

If I was just looking for a 15-20” winter I’d be more optimistic from that look.  If im being honest, I’ve been up here 19 years now, and for the first 11 it was worth the long commute snow wise. The last 8 years it’s most definitely not been!  

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11 hours ago, SnowenOutThere said:

I mean you had a pretty impressive lead time with the original cape storm but this just seems cocky! Actually though, that's a very intriguing possibility and you will get full naming rights when (not if) this happens. 

Its not a prediction. Just speculation based on how some recent Ninas have played out, and it represents a possible best case scenario realistically. A cold period late Dec into mid January, then another chance later in winter as the Nina fades, with a possible NA blocking period. It's impossible to know exactly what the character of this event will be or how it will play out- right now there is no guarantee it will be an official Nina. Cold neutral is a possibility. What we do know is the PDO is still unfavorable and there are various marine heat waves that will have some impact. The MJO forcing will likely remain in the unfavorable phases most of the time.

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While I think we’ll see more of the same this winter, a potential wild card is that ssts off the west coast have been warming the last 4 weeks. 

IMG_6647.jpeg.e97f907c90b6a8975f5e65b60e92dc0e.jpeg

Still have that marine hear wave off Japan and SW of the aleutians, so that’s supportive of a north pacific high on a seasonal scale. But I wonder if we’ll see a bit more -EPO blocking. Like last January, that’s our path to a serviceable albeit below climo winter. But if those waters cool back down in the fall while the Japan marine heat wave persists, I don’t see a way out of another warm and snowless winter unless a short-term fluke happens. 

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1 hour ago, Terpeast said:

While I think we’ll see more of the same this winter, a potential wild card is that ssts off the west coast have been warming the last 4 weeks. 

IMG_6647.jpeg.e97f907c90b6a8975f5e65b60e92dc0e.jpeg

Still have that marine hear wave off Japan and SW of the aleutians, so that’s supportive of a north pacific high on a seasonal scale. But I wonder if we’ll see a bit more -EPO blocking. Like last January, that’s our path to a serviceable albeit below climo winter. But if those waters cool back down in the fall while the Japan marine heat wave persists, I don’t see a way out of another warm and snowless winter unless a short-term fluke happens. 

If we get another close to totally snowless winter (and I agree we could) that would be troubling since that’s supposed to be a once in 20 years type thing but this would be several in a short period. 

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37 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

If we get another close to totally snowless winter (and I agree we could) that would be troubling since that’s supposed to be a once in 20 years type thing but this would be several in a short period. 

Some people in the ENSO thread have been saying that this could be a version 2.0 of the 22-23 winter. Analog looks good, but I think there may be even less blocking this time than that winter unless the tropics start acting up soon. I’m trying to find paths to a decent winter, and aside from the EPO domain, I’m not seeing much. 

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On 8/28/2024 at 3:12 PM, Eskimo Joe said:

I would give real money for a nice 8" - 12" of snow starting around sun rise Christmas Day with temps staying below normal through New Years.

You need to re-visit Christmas 1969.  I received 12 inches with a high of 24 and a low of 14.

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