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12 minutes ago, Carvers Gap said:

@GaWx, was it you who was mentioning that WxBell has a problem with their CFSv2 ext graphics - meaning always too cold?  If so what is your best source besides the government panels?  I don't think the CFS graphics on WxBell are even usable right now due to that flaw.

 The Tropical Tidbits CFS graphics are much more realistic imho:

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=cfs-mon&region=eus&pkg=T2maMean_month&runtime=2024082700&fh=6

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The Weeklies could easily be wrong as we are now pretty much at shoulder season.  Meteorological summer is over in four days.   I am sure it will get hot again, but Euro weeklies(especially the control) and the GEFS ext are fairly adamant with a September cool down.  Does it continue into October?  That is anyone's guess, and conflicting signals are present in that regard.  But I would not be surprised to see a 3-4 week timeframe that averages BN for temps, but only after this week.  The change next week should be notable, almost 20-25 degrees cooler than what we will see Thursday.  TIFWIW.  

I still don't have a firm winter forecast out.  Generally, (and to repeat) I think Nov-Dec is E TN's best shot at winter.  There is a fairly strong signal for a warm Jan-Feb.  However, that could easily change as this winter is a bit more tricky than normal IMHO.  

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Here is why I am a bit reluctant.  These are the d8-14 analogs.  They likely don't give us much of a hint at winter, but sometimes those summer analogs do reveal a thing or two.  Want to take one guess why I am skittish on a torch?  The quadruple weighted analog year....

20050904
20060831
20090914
20010922
20050823
20090919
20090909
20040924
20090924
20050828

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/analog.php

@John1122, are any of those other years good ones?  I see 2005 weighted pretty heavily as well. @Daniel Boone?  @Met1985?

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2 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

Here is why I am a bit reluctant.  These are the d8-14 analogs.  They likely don't give us much of a hint at winter, but sometimes those summer analogs do reveal a thing or two.  Want to take one guess why I am skittish on a torch?  The quadruple weighted analog year....

20050904
20060831
20090914
20010922
20050823
20090919
20090909
20040924
20090924
20050828

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/analog.php

@John1122, are any of those other years good ones?  I see 2005 weighted pretty heavily as well. @Daniel Boone?  @Met1985?

Yeah 2005 was definitely a good winter that I remember.  A lot better than our previous.  I like that we finally might see a weak ENSO steering current instead of moderate or super. This latest torch is pretty spot on and I'm seeing signs of the northern jet coming alive already...

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Winter 2004-2005 wasn't great here. December had a very cold shot with a couple inches of snow and lows near 0. Jan and Feb alternated between mild and wet then dry and cold. Jan had a couple of dry cold shots that had trace to 1/2 inch snow shower type days. There were a couple of snow events in February but they weren't huge, around 2 inches each. It actually turned cold in March and the month was frigid vs normal, with a couple of snow events. 

Overall Dec and March were BN, Jan and Feb AN with BN snow. 

Nov 2004 was very mild. Around +5.5. 

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7 hours ago, John1122 said:

Winter 2004-2005 wasn't great here. December had a very cold shot with a couple inches of snow and lows near 0. Jan and Feb alternated between mild and wet then dry and cold. Jan had a couple of dry cold shots that had trace to 1/2 inch snow shower type days. There were a couple of snow events in February but they weren't huge, around 2 inches each. It actually turned cold in March and the month was frigid vs normal, with a couple of snow events. 

Overall Dec and March were BN, Jan and Feb AN with BN snow. 

Nov 2004 was very mild. Around +5.5. 

Thanks, man.  What about 05-06?  Sorry, I should have clarified.  

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9 hours ago, Met1985 said:

Yeah 2005 was definitely a good winter that I remember.  A lot better than our previous.  I like that we finally might see a weak ENSO steering current instead of moderate or super. This latest torch is pretty spot on and I'm seeing signs of the northern jet coming alive already...

Yes, if it will stay weak...we might be in business.

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12 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

Here is why I am a bit reluctant.  These are the d8-14 analogs.  They likely don't give us much of a hint at winter, but sometimes those summer analogs do reveal a thing or two.  Want to take one guess why I am skittish on a torch?  The quadruple weighted analog year....

20050904
20060831
20090914
20010922
20050823
20090919
20090909
20040924
20090924
20050828

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/analog.php

@John1122, are any of those other years good ones?  I see 2005 weighted pretty heavily as well. @Daniel Boone?  @Met1985?

We had horrible flooding in this corner of the state and throughout northern GA in September 2009. I think I ended that month with over 17" of rain and I don't think there was a single tropical system involved.

Looks like we topped out at 97 at KCHA yesterday. Today's official forecast is for 100. At no point did the heat index exceed the air temp yesterday. It actually didn't feel too horrible. Just hot, not sticky.

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2 hours ago, dwagner88 said:

We had horrible flooding in this corner of the state and throughout northern GA in September 2009. I think I ended that month with over 17" of rain and I don't think there was a single tropical system involved.

Looks like we topped out at 97 at KCHA yesterday. Today's official forecast is for 100. At no point did the heat index exceed the air temp yesterday. It actually didn't feel too horrible. Just hot, not sticky.

Interesting about the flooding which preceded a doozy of a winter.  There is a line of thinking that normal to AN rainfall during fall is a signal for a trough in that area. That might be something to watch for.  Right now, September looks rainy but not excessive.  Oct could be pretty dry...just looking at ext runs.  That said, one tropical system could change all of that one way or the other.

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5 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

Thanks, man.  What about 05-06?  Sorry, I should have clarified.  

December was -5 but would be heavy rain, then snow showers to follow with several trace to 1/2 inch events. January was a torch at +7.5 and February was -4 to -6 but the cold lined up better than December and we had several snow events.  There was a 1-3 inch event the first week of Feb, a big one just before Valentines day for a lot of us, but Knoxville to Chattanooga didn't do so well and for some reason SWVa and NE areas along the Va border didn't do as well. Pennington Gap says 2 inches, Abington 3, Tri only recorded around 2 inches at the airport, with Greenville getting similar amounts. However Erwin and Elizabethton got 4-5 inches. Above 2500 feet in the far east were using a yard stick, Mountain City got around 14-16 inches, LeConte got 34 inches, 9 in Gatlinburg at the ski area. The Plateau areas got 6-9 inches from here to Jamestown and down to Crossville. Morgan County around Lancing got 4.5 inches, Norris around 4 inches, Morristown around 2 inches, less than two around Knox and Oak Ridge, a trace around Nooga.

It warmed dramatically a few days later and rained, then around a week later another 1-3 inches fell across most of the East.

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1 hour ago, John1122 said:

December was -5 but would be heavy rain, then snow showers to follow with several trace to 1/2 inch events. January was a torch at +7.5 and February was -4 to -6 but the cold lined up better than December and we had several snow events.  There was a 1-3 inch event the first week of Feb, a big one just before Valentines day for a lot of us, but Knoxville to Chattanooga didn't do so well and for some reason SWVa and NE areas along the Va border didn't do as well. Pennington Gap says 2 inches, Abington 3, Tri only recorded around 2 inches at the airport, with Greenville getting similar amounts. However Erwin and Elizabethton got 4-5 inches. Above 2500 feet in the far east were using a yard stick, Mountain City got around 14-16 inches, LeConte got 34 inches, 9 in Gatlinburg at the ski area. The Plateau areas got 6-9 inches from here to Jamestown and down to Crossville. Morgan County around Lancing got 4.5 inches, Norris around 4 inches, Morristown around 2 inches, less than two around Knox and Oak Ridge, a trace around Nooga.

It warmed dramatically a few days later and rained, then around a week later another 1-3 inches fell across most of the East.

Not that drawing much from late August analogs means much, but that analog package yesterday featured about 2/3 of the years having a very cold month or two.  Wild swings.  Blend those three sets together, and that is a respectable winter.

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As we all know, 09-10 was a great Winter , cold and snow wise. However, it was a Nino as we know as well. 

       The 05-06 Winter wasn't great overall in the upper east Tn and SW Va Valley areas as John touched on. Early to mid February did feature a couple decent 2-4 inch Snow events in the lower eles with more of course higher. Neither stayed on very long. 

       Hopefully, the Nina continues to be a slow strengthening one. If it does I'd be confident of at least a decent Winter. However, as we have seen recently, the PDO and WPO have been playing havoc. Hopefully, changes within those areas will evolve to our benefit. Also, the SST'S off Newfoundland are boiling now. We need those to cool substantially. 

image.thumb.png.c052bdbf59016313452853d4bfdd4ebb.png

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https://www.wate.com/news/smoky-mountains/flint-gap-fire-in-the-smokies/
 

Burn ban now in effect for Rutherford county that I live in.  The leaves are coming down like snow.  Many are green with some yellow.  My yard is the worse I have ever seen it.  Completely dead.  Looking forward to the cooler days but if we don’t get rain it’s going to get ugly I’m afraid.  My neighbor is a forest fire fighter.  He said right now it would take 5-7” to end our drought.  Any rain would help but with the driest months coming up.  He said pay attention.  We live next to the woods. 

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