RONI?

[jpbart]

I understand what ONI in, and SOI, but what is RONI?  I tried searching for but to no avail.  Can somebody explain this please?

[weatherwiz]

There are a few papers on this out there. 

Essentially, the RONI is the conventional Nino 3.4 index minus the SSTA averaged across the whole tropics to remove the global warming signal. 

[GaWx]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:28 AM, jpbart said:

I understand what ONI in, and SOI, but what is RONI?  I tried searching for but to no avail.  Can somebody explain this please?

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/data/indices/RONI.ascii.txt

[Ed, snow and hurricane fan]

Wouldn't RONI minimize the upcoming cool ENSO because of the warming Atlantic.  I know that is the opposite of what it is supposed to do, I can see how it works with a warm ENSO, but not a cool one.

[GaWx]

1 hour ago, Ed, snow and hurricane fan said:

Wouldn't RONI minimize the upcoming cool ENSO because of the warming Atlantic.  I know that is the opposite of what it is supposed to do, I can see how it works with a warm ENSO, but not a cool one.

No, it is the opposite because RONI looks at the contrast better with the surrounding extra warm waters that were caused by GW. With this last El Nino, RONI peak was only high end moderate vs ONI peak of borderline strong/super-strong. So, RONI was ~0.5C cooler than ONI. For the upcoming La Nina, there's a good chance for a similar relationship where ONI dips only to, say, -1.0 or -1.4 while RONI dips to, say, -1.5 or -1.8 meaning RONI once again cooler.

[jpbart]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the responses.

 

[Typhoon Tip]

Ah ... not sure y'all got that quite right.  

RONI is actually a colloquialism for Pepperoni, a variety of spicy salami-style processed food made from an amalgam of cured pork and beef, seasoned with salt, paprika, chili flakes or cayenne pepper, fennel seed and garlic.   The term was long ago formulated amid Americana for its delectable inclusion and is therefore most useful in that culinary application and recognition. 

So tired of misnomers

[Vinny Findley]

What is COC refering to in a lot of posts I see? Not coming up in any searches.

[Typhoon Tip]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:28 PM, Vinny Findley said:

What is COC refering to in a lot of posts I see? Not coming up in any searches.

When you cross up the idea of Chamber Of Commerce air quality control environments with the awe-inspiring intelligentsia of the cackling plebeian user state ... 

[weatherwiz]

On 5/26/2024 at 6:12 PM, GaWx said:

No, it is the opposite because RONI looks at the contrast better with the surrounding extra warm waters that were caused by GW. With this last El Nino, RONI peak was only high end moderate vs ONI peak of borderline strong/super-strong. So, RONI was ~0.5C cooler than ONI. For the upcoming La Nina, there's a good chance for a similar relationship where ONI dips only to, say, -1.0 or -1.4 while RONI dips to, say, -1.5 or -1.8 meaning RONI once again cooler.

There is one thing I can't find, however, I am assuming this is the case.

Does the RONI still use a similar definition of +/- 0.5C for 5 consecutive trimonthly periods to classify an event?

[GaWx]

32 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

There is one thing I can't find, however, I am assuming this is the case.

Does the RONI still use a similar definition of +/- 0.5C for 5 consecutive trimonthly periods to classify an event?

  Good question. My understanding is (or at least the way I use it) that the required +/- 0.5C for 5 consecutive trimonthly periods is just for whether or not an event is Nino, neutral, or Nina based on ONI. However, because RONI is a pretty new concept and has yet to be used for official classifications, it’s going to be hard (if not impossible) to find anything about requiring 5 consecutive RONI for classifying. But I think it makes perfect sense to use RONI that way. I don’t see why not.

[weatherwiz]

22 minutes ago, GaWx said:

  Good question. My understanding is (or at least the way I use it) that the required +/- 0.5C for 5 consecutive trimonthly periods is just for whether or not an event is Nino, neutral, or Nina based on ONI. However, because RONI is a pretty new concept and has yet to be used for official classifications, it’s going to be hard (if not impossible) to find anything about requiring 5 consecutive RONI for classifying. But I think it makes perfect sense to use RONI that way. I don’t see why not.

Gotcha, I know from a few of the papers I've read, it sounds like there will likely be updated methodologies behind the definition over time. 

When I'm doing stuff with ENSO I am using Eric Webb's ENS-ONI, ONI, and now incorporating the RONI. I'm defining events based on the definitions of each method and doing a comparison. In terms of the RONI.

However, I am not sure if I want to create a list of ENSO events using the traditional ONI method or using the RONI as a means to gauge the strength of an event. I am leaning towards a blend of these two as the studies have shown that the traditional ONI has missed a few La Nina events (or downplayed the strength) and the traditional ONI has also overstated the strength of some EL Nino events.