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2024-2025 La Nina


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1 hour ago, chris21 said:

I bet the Nov 5th-15th period will trend colder on guidance for the northeast. Wouldn’t even be shocked to see some flurries at some point at my location at 3800 feet on the NC/Tenn border. We had about a half inch Oct 15th (3 or 4 inches 700 feet up the mountain). Been unbelievably warm since.

I’m not sure, are phases 7-2 cold in the east in November? 

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1 hour ago, chris21 said:

I bet the Nov 5th-15th period will trend colder on guidance for the northeast. Wouldn’t even be shocked to see some flurries at some point at my location at 3800 feet on the NC/Tenn border. We had about a half inch Oct 15th (3 or 4 inches 700 feet up the mountain). Been unbelievably warm since.

8-1-2 start becoming colder the later into November we get. As for flurries, I was just referring to my location which averages 40 plus inches of snow a year over the past twenty years.

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8 minutes ago, GaWx said:

Euro Weeklies through mid Dec no change: very strong SPV, solidly AN temps E 2/3 of US.

Makes sense because the MJO will be back in the warm phases by then. It’s late Dec onward that I’m watching for. 

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6 hours ago, GaWx said:

 The Oct 31st CANSIPS is the 3rd run in a row with a Modoki El Niño getting established in the summer of 2025. Now if only the W Pac marine heatwave/extreme -PDO would subside.

IMG_0643.thumb.png.0c98088e88fd1f6f5947e49724f35cd4.png

I think the Modoki el nino only happens if the -PDO subsides. If we're still in -PDO, we're most likely in ENSO neutral or la nina. 2 el ninos in 3 years is rare, much less impossible in -PDO.

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16 hours ago, GaWx said:

Mild has been fully expected by me for Nov and at least Dec. This map is actually not that dry.

The red flag was that the CFSV2 got warmer and warmer with November in the final days of October. The end of the month is when the CFS actually becomes accurate in sniffing out the following month. My guess is that the east coast drought continues and November ends up a well above normal month (temps)…..possibly a top 10 above normal November….

@michsnowfreak Yes it was very consistent with a warm November but got warmer and warmer in the final week leading up to today, which gives me even more confidence that this month is possibly going to torch

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Happy November all. Really is when North America starts descending into winter. Not sure about every place, but here in Detroit and most other midwest/Lakes areas, no month of the year has a larger difference in average temperature from the first to last day of the month than November. The next closest is May.

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2 hours ago, snowman19 said:

The red flag was that the CFSV2 got warmer and warmer with November in the final days of October. The end of the month is when the CFS actually becomes accurate in sniffing out the following month. My guess is that the east coast drought continues and November ends up a well above normal month (temps)…..possibly a top 10 above normal November….

The CFS was actually quite steady on a mild November.

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3 hours ago, qg_omega said:

No reason to not go record warm every month, we have been locked in for the past 5 winters and the maritime heat wave due to CC has fundamentally changed our winters.

Over the past 90 days it has been slightly warmer than average but not a torch. The first half of November does look quite warm though.

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11 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

Happy November all. Really is when North America starts descending into winter. Not sure about every place, but here in Detroit and most other midwest/Lakes areas, no month of the year has a larger difference in average temperature from the first to last day of the month than November. The next closest is May.

it would be nice if nature followed the intents and purposes of human designs like that.  lol

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The early unofficial ranking for October was 3rd warmest for the CONUS based on Prism temperatures. The official rankings should be out in a few weeks. 2016 is currently ranked 3rd and 2015 was 5th warmest. Our last top 10 coldest October was in 2009 which finished at 4th coldest. Several mid-Atlantic stations had their snowiest season on record following that cold October. It was the last one that several Southeast locations registered a top 10 coldest winter. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, snowman19 said:

The red flag was that the CFSV2 got warmer and warmer with November in the final days of October. The end of the month is when the CFS actually becomes accurate in sniffing out the following month. My guess is that the east coast drought continues and November ends up a well above normal month (temps)…..possibly a top 10 above normal November….

@michsnowfreak Yes it was very consistent with a warm November but got warmer and warmer in the final week leading up to today, which gives me even more confidence that this month is possibly going to torch

The population weighted US will continue to cool in the absolute sense as it almost has to, but it is forecasted to continue running about half a month behind climo averages, which is quite an anomaly for the country as a whole during a period of the most rapid fall in climo for dailies.

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 The new TT CANSIPS precip map for DJF is mainly BN for the E seaboard and especially for the SE US (pretty similar to prior runs)(New England is only slightly BN to NN)(Mich/Midwest is NN).

IMG_0645.thumb.png.ab2dd2f426ff3e21a9e53bb1c6fcb5b4.png

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 The new TT CANSIPS is the mildest run yet and suggests a mild winter for the E/SE/SC US though Michigan is NN to BN. Regardless, there will very likely be at least a couple of BN periods interspersed as is the case just about every winter due to typical ups and downs but when, how intense, and for how long?

IMG_0644.thumb.png.2f769f350a52fd665282a4d51c3a0856.png

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2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

it would be nice if nature following the intents and purposes of human designs like that.  lol

Lol well I meant climo wise. The decline of average temperature during November is greater than any month of the year (also greater than the rise of any month of the year, though May is fairly close). 

While I personally am ready for snow, I'm fine with a mild November. Locally weve seen more cold than mild Novembers the last decade. 

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18 minutes ago, GaWx said:

 The new CANSIPS is the mildest run yet and suggests a mild winter for the E/SE/SC US though Michigan is NN to BN. Regardless, there will very likely be at least a couple of BN periods interspersed as is the case just about every winter due to typical ups and downs but when, how intense, and for how long?

IMG_0644.thumb.png.2f769f350a52fd665282a4d51c3a0856.png

Yeah, looks to basically continue the persistent Pattern. When you factor in the strong - PDO, +QBO and Nina along with unfavorable NATL. SST'S that look is what you'd probably expect.

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26 minutes ago, GaWx said:

 The new CANSIPS is the mildest run yet and suggests a mild winter for the E/SE/SC US though Michigan is NN to BN. Regardless, there will very likely be at least a couple of BN periods interspersed as is the case just about every winter due to typical ups and downs but when, how intense, and for how long?

IMG_0644.thumb.png.2f769f350a52fd665282a4d51c3a0856.png

Interesting as that doesn't quite match with the wxbell cansips. In any event. Not a bad look here. And even for most of the Northeast that's only +1-1.5°C

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2 hours ago, bluewave said:

The early unofficial ranking for October was 3rd warmest for the CONUS based on Prism temperatures. The official rankings should be out in a few weeks. 2016 is currently ranked 3rd and 2015 was 5th warmest. Our last top 10 coldest October was in 2009 which finished at 4th coldest. Several mid-Atlantic stations had their snowiest season on record following that cold October. It was the last one that several Southeast locations registered a top 10 coldest winter. 
 

 

Only 3rd warmest? Even Tony Heller's fraudulent analysis has this October as 2nd warmest. As you can see, his analysis shows a cooling trend when, in fact, there's been a sharp warming trend in the actual data. So if he has this as 2nd warmest, surely it must be the warmest on record by a long shot.

 

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Just now, TheClimateChanger said:

Only 3rd warmest? Even Tony Heller's fraudulent analysis has this October as 2nd warmest. As you can see, his analysis shows a cooling trend when, in fact, there's been a sharp warming trend in the actual data. So if he has this as 2nd warmest, surely it must be the warmest on record by a long shot.

 

One thing I'll say is I think the drought is artificially cooling these numbers. You can see around Pittsburgh, it was an absolute blow torch with high temperatures more than 6F above normal. But the overall ranking is unimpressive, because low temperatures were so much colder. I suspect this was the case in a lot of places. I do wonder what an analysis of maximum temperatures only would show.

 

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If a 20-40 meter Southeast Ridge 500 mb anomaly actually verified like the CanSIPS is showing , then the temperature anomalies would be much warmer. The 500 millibar anomaly chart is close to the 16-17 La Niña winter. Several locations that winter went 5+. We would need at least one month with a big mismatch pattern for the La Niña and -PDO to stay in the more moderate +1 to + 3 range where the warmest departures actually set up. 
 

IMG_1756.thumb.png.79c4e247480addeb12879835481d3486.png

IMG_1757.png.59e86dbbc8a3ed6f1681c62971f29620.png

IMG_1758.png.356b376282622a177f45b3a61120fd4d.png

 

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On 11/1/2024 at 3:34 PM, bluewave said:

If a 20-40 meter Southeast Ridge 500 mb anomaly actually verified like the CanSIPS is showing , then the temperature anomalies would be much warmer. The 500 millibar anomaly chart is close to the 16-17 La Niña winter. Several locations that winter went 5+. We would need at least one month with a big mismatch pattern for the La Niña and -PDO to stay in the more moderate +1 to + 3 range where the warmest departures actually set up. 
 

IMG_1756.thumb.png.79c4e247480addeb12879835481d3486.png

IMG_1757.png.59e86dbbc8a3ed6f1681c62971f29620.png

IMG_1758.png.356b376282622a177f45b3a61120fd4d.png

 

100%. Based on the D-F 500mb, the Cansips would be a torch winter

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1 hour ago, bluewave said:

If a 20-40 meter Southeast Ridge 500 mb anomaly actually verified like the CanSIPS is showing , then the temperature anomalies would be much warmer. The 500 millibar anomaly chart is close to the 16-17 La Niña winter. Several locations that winter went 5+. We would need at least one month with a big mismatch pattern for the La Niña and -PDO to stay in the more moderate +1 to + 3 range where the warmest departures actually set up. 
 

IMG_1756.thumb.png.79c4e247480addeb12879835481d3486.png

IMG_1757.png.59e86dbbc8a3ed6f1681c62971f29620.png

IMG_1758.png.356b376282622a177f45b3a61120fd4d.png

 

Yep that’s just very ugly. Hopefully it is completely wrong, verbatim I got a decent amount of snow in 16-17 but I do not want to take my chances with that pattern again. The extended stretches of warmth with small 1-2 week windows of opportunity isn’t going to cut it.

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44 minutes ago, George001 said:

Yep that’s just very ugly. Hopefully it is completely wrong, verbatim I got a decent amount of snow in 16-17 but I do not want to take my chances with that pattern again. The extended stretches of warmth with small 1-2 week windows of opportunity isn’t going to cut it.

January, already the coldest climo month of the year, has the coldest anamolies of any month in the northern tier on both cansips and cfs.

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