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The Weekend Rule? Saturday 2/17 - The Icon Storm


DDweatherman
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8 minutes ago, Stormchaserchuck1 said:

They are drying up, but you guys are acting like they showed 6-10" a few days ago. 

No, but when nws had to make decisions based 12z guidance of gfs and NAM and 6z euro earlier today the blend of what NWS weights most GFS EURO 3kNAM was showing ~.5 qpf across the area and most importantly qpf was trending up at that time, all 3 were showing a good slp track and crazy insane fgen over the area and a thermal profile conducive to optimal dendritic growth and good ratios. It may have been a little ambitious but found with 3-5 and 5-8 across the area at that time wasn’t crazy given a mean qpf of .5, and up trend, and potential for decent ratios. 
 

I kind of doubt they would have gone so ambitious had they known what the 18z guidance would look like.  But now they have to decide whether to lower based on off hour runs and CAMs which are notoriously unreliable or let the forecast ride despite some new evidence suggesting they are a bit liberal on snow. 
 

You were misrepresenting things to make it seem like guidance never supported what they have and I disagree. When they released it at the time I thought it was a but high, they went over my forecast numbers, but not by a lot and given trends at that time it was reasonable. 

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Just now, WesternFringe said:

It’s not working out very well.  Weenies be cliff diving and stuff

The short duration of the storm makes it a likely challenge for the DC crew when we're starting out so warm.  

For those outside the beltway, nobody should be cliff diving.

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For the record I’m not cliff jumping. I love to analyze this stuff. I’m curious why the CAMs are off on a tangent so close to game time. But I’ve noted they do this sometimes and the radar looks great. But I’m always open minded to all possibilities. Maybe they’re right. Doubt it but I’ve seen weirder things!  It’s chips fall time. But I like to analyze all these situations. They are learning experiences. We will have another similar wave scenario to this someday in the future and the outcome here along with the performance of these guidance tools will be used to help me make a better forecast in the future. 

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7 minutes ago, TSSN+ said:

IMG_4909.png

Mesoscale Discussion 0148
   NWS Storm Prediction Center Norman OK
   0640 PM CST Fri Feb 16 2024

   Areas affected...The Upper Ohio River Valley into the central
   Appalachians

   Concerning...Heavy snow 

   Valid 170040Z - 170445Z

   SUMMARY...A swath of moderate to heavy snow is expected to spread
   east across the upper Ohio River Valley into the central
   Appalachians through the evening hours.

   DISCUSSION...Over the past several hours, a semi-persistent band of
   moderate to heavy snow has shifted east across the Midwest and
   middle OH River Valley. Surface observations and web cams under this
   band have shown visibility reductions down to 1/4 mile at times,
   indicative of moderate to heavy snowfall rates. Snowfall reports
   over the past 1-3 hours support this idea with multiple reports of
   3-5 inch snowfall totals since early afternoon. Recent upper-air
   analyses continue to show favorable overlap of broad synoptic ascent
   ahead of the approaching low-amplitude upper wave with a more
   focused zone of mesoscale ascent driven by a plume of warm advection
   and frontogenesis within the 925-850 mb layer. Favorable phasing of
   these mechanisms is expected to persist for the next several as the
   synoptic system shifts east towards the Mid-Atlantic. 

   Consequently, organized snow bands capable of heavy snowfall rates
   upwards of 1-2 inch/hour will remain possible across the upper OH
   River Valley into the central Appalachian region for the next
   several hours. Locations downstream that are currently not below
   freezing may see a slightly delayed onset of snowfall as low-level
   saturation promotes temperature reductions below freezing.
   Furthermore, orographic ascent within the Appalachians may augment
   lift over eastern WV/western VA and increase the potential for 2+
   inch/hour snowfall rates during the 04-06 UTC period.

   ..Moore.. 02/17/2024

   ...Please see www.spc.noaa.gov for graphic product...

   ATTN...WFO...CTP...LWX...RNK...PBZ...RLX...CLE...JKL...ILN...
   LMK...
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1 minute ago, paulythegun said:


What counts as underperforming? The precip max shifted 80 miles north in the past 24 hours so what baseline do we even use?

Looks like I was just reading posts from catastrophizing weenies. One of the posters here is in Alexandria and they’re already seeing flurries.

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I think you all need to be careful on some of those radar images a lot of those radars overhype precip and show virga. This one below is rather good I find and it sadly is very hrrr esk 

i find the precip orientation to be problematic. Just look at it! I find temps to be a problem for initial stickage in the cities. 
 

We will snow but there is no question in my mind that we significantly underperform nws totals. 
 

 

 

 

19F8C479-CA4D-4ECB-AAB6-B4C4DF8EE54A.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, JenkinsJinkies said:

If this underperforms should there be a post mortem what went wrong write up?

The storm was always going to do what it was going to do. The post mortem would be that models are just that and shouldn’t be read as gospel. It’s also possible it overperforms. We won’t know till it happens because all we have are models. 

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Just now, konksw said:

The storm was always going to do what it was going to do. The post mortem would be that models are just that and shouldn’t be read as gospel. It’s also possible it overperforms. We won’t know till it happens because all we have are models. 

Yeah but some of the trends show a significant reduction of what the NWS is predicting.

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2 minutes ago, JenkinsJinkies said:

Looks like I was just reading posts from catastrophizing weenies. One of the posters here is in Alexandria and they’re already seeing flurries.

I’m at our place in McHenry for this.  But stop listening to the worry worts, too much teeth gnashing over the HRRR.

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I think you all need to be careful on some of those radar images a lot of those radars overhype precip and show virga. This one below is rather good I find and it sadly is very hrrr esk 
i find the precip orientation to be problematic. Just look at it! I find temps to be a problem for initial stickage in the cities. 
 
We will snow but there is no question in my mind that we significantly underperform nws totals. 
 
 
 
 
19F8C479-CA4D-4ECB-AAB6-B4C4DF8EE54A.jpeg.3e34f09b76e10f0e6df31bce3e230da0.jpeg

The precip orientation is great for Philly!


.
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6 minutes ago, RevWarReenactor said:

I think you all need to be careful on some of those radar images a lot of those radars overhype precip and show virga. This one below is rather good I find and it sadly is very hrrr esk 

i find the precip orientation to be problematic. Just look at it! I find temps to be a problem for initial stickage in the cities. 
 

We will snow but there is no question in my mind that we significantly underperform nws totals. 
 

 

 

 

19F8C479-CA4D-4ECB-AAB6-B4C4DF8EE54A.jpeg

I am sorry but it is clearly not raining or mixed in snowshoe as you radar is depicting. 

IMG_1651.png

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