February 2024

[LibertyBell]

9 minutes ago, bluewave said:

They would make the trip from 30 Rock over to Central Park to take the snowfall measurements before 1993. 
 

https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/nws-heritage/-/100-years-of-weather-observations-at-belvedere-castle-in-central-park#:~:text=On January 1%2C 1920 the,communications with the primary office.

The lack of space for weather observing equipment in Rockefeller Plaza resulted in the decision to make the Central Park observing site the official NYC observation and, on January 1, 1961 it became such. References from this point out for climatological records in New York City referenced the Park, not the Weather Bureau office in Lower Manhattan. In addition, the observation was automated, with the exception of sky cover and snowfall, and remoted to a display at 30 Rockefeller Plaza. Snow observations were taken by staff from the Weather Bureau who made the trek through the snow to Central Park to measure it.

 

But snowfall measuring definitely was not a problem in during the prolific winters of 1993-94 and 1995-96 (although some say that the January 1996 blizzard was undermeasured at Central Park.)

Temperature measurements also did not become a problem until the 2000s (after 2002 I'd say.)

 

[MJO812]

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

Thanks Don, when did LGA and EWR's period of record begin?

 

LaGuardia: October 1939

Newark: January 1893

 

[donsutherland1]

10 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Today is Charlotte's 750th consecutive day without any snow. Unless things change, the record of 778 days could be broken.

[MJO812]

16 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Today is Charlotte's 750th consecutive day without any snow. Unless things change, the record of 778 days could be broken.

Syracuse number stands out to me the most 

[psv88]

25 now of a high of 41. Temp dropping like a rock. Still 5” of pack in the shade. 

[jm1220]

31 minutes ago, psv88 said:

25 now of a high of 41. Temp dropping like a rock. Still 5” of pack in the shade. 

26 here, near 40 in the city still. Places in the sun took a big hit today but like you said, still plenty in the shade. 

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, MJO812 said:

Syracuse number stands out to me the most 

Mansfield OH.... wow, they should have 3 feet of snow by now and they don't even have 8 inches!

[Albedoman]

4 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Mansfield OH.... wow, they should have 3 feet of snow by now and they don't even have 8 inches!

I have had 35.5 in of snow thus far. The 14 inches I had on Saturday helped.  This would rank near the top 5 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

3 hours ago, MJO812 said:

It's always bothered me that they list Dulles airport as Washington DC on these lists. Dulles is 27 miles from Washington DC and well entrenched in Virginia. With that logic Why not list white plains HPN as NYC. At least they're in the same state and closer to each other. 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

12 hours ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

My grade factors in snowfall, temps, snowpack retention, the number of storms, and the overall feel and look of winter...

Same here regarding grading, I'm at 29.3 inches for the season which  is only a couple inches shy of normal to this point in the season and this Winter is a solid D right now. 
 

Temperatures 5-7 degrees above our inflated new normals. Snow cover days way below normal, no below zero days and more amazingly one single digit all season, 0 snow in December. Actually make it a D- so far. 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

19 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

But snowfall measuring definitely was not a problem in during the prolific winters of 1993-94 and 1995-96 (although some say that the January 1996 blizzard was undermeasured at Central Park.)

Temperature measurements also did not become a problem until the 2000s (after 2002 I'd say.)

 

1993-1994 they did a poor job measuring at the park. 1995-96 was much better except of course as you mentioned the January Blizzard. The 20.2 they reported at Central Park was under measured by 4-5 inches minimum. 

[Snowstorms]

6 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

LaGuardia: October 1939

Newark: January 1893

 

Wow, I find it interesting Toronto began recording in 1840. 

[Intensewind002]

Did anyone else notice Westhampton jump from 18 to 31 in the past hour? That’s pretty wild honestly, shows how fragile perfect radiational cooling conditions can be.

[LibertyBell]

3 hours ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

1993-1994 they did a poor job measuring at the park. 1995-96 was much better except of course as you mentioned the January Blizzard. The 20.0 they reported at Central Park was under measured by 4-5 inches minimum. 

They measured over 53 inches in 1993-94 though which was in line with the other airports.

 

[bluewave]

17 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Today is Charlotte's 750th consecutive day without any snow. Unless things change, the record of 778 days could be broken.

It makes sense that the more southern areas have lost the most snow since they have passed warming thresholds faster for snowfall accumulation.

 

[the_other_guy]

for the people who declared winter over on January 20, now you could redeem yourselves by declaring it over save a one off mid March event.

[donsutherland1]

5 hours ago, Snowstorms said:

Wow, I find it interesting Toronto began recording in 1840. 

Toronto has an amazingly long record.

[donsutherland1]

39 minutes ago, bluewave said:

It makes sense that the more southern areas have lost the most snow since they have passed warming thresholds faster for snowfall accumulation. The 50 year trend really shows what an outlier the 2010s was for the Northeast snowfall. So the seasonal snowfall declines have finally made it to our area with the record warmth during the 2020s.

 

 

Yes. NYC is likely in the early stages of a transition to lower seasonal snowfall.

[SACRUS]

 

From 21 now to 28 as we continue the colder than normal and now dry stretch.  Moderating by mid week to and above normal and the next storm looks wet.  Very warm to close the month and open next between systems.  Perhaps Monday (tonight/tue am) night lows the coldest till next winter.

 

 

 

[MJO812]

32 minutes ago, the_other_guy said:

for the people who declared winter over on January 20, now you could redeem yourselves by declaring it over save a one off mid March event.

Too early

March has been our snowiest month 

[SACRUS]

 

Records:

Highs:

EWR: 69 (2017)
NYC: 66 (1997)
LGA: 66 (2017)


Lows:

EWR: 1 (1936)
NYC: 1 (1936)
LGA: 9 (2015)

 

Historical:

 

1884 - Severe thunderstorms spawned sixty tornadoes in the southeastern U.S., killing more than 420 persons and causing three million dollars damage. Georgia and the Carolinas hardest were hit in the tornado outbreak. (David Ludlum)

1888 - A tornado struck Mount Vernon IL. The tornado killed sixteen persons along its 62 mile path. (David Ludlum)

1954 - High winds across the southern half of the Great Plains, gusting to 85 mph, caused the worst duststorms since the 1930s. Graders were needed in places to clear fence high dirt drifts. (The Weather Channel)

1987 - A winter storm over the southern and central Rockies produced 28 inches of snow at Echo Lake CO, and two feet of snow at Gascon NM and Los Alamos NM. Mora County NM was declared a disaster area following the storm. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

1988 - Showers and thunderstorms in the southeastern U.S. drenched Valdosta GA with more than five inches of rain, and the 24 hour rainfall total of 7.10 inches at Apalachicola FL more than doubled their previous 24 hour record for February. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

1989 - An upper level weather disturbance brought heavy snow to parts of Nebraska, with six inches reported at Loup City and Surprise. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

1990 - A moist Pacific storm worked its way into New Mexico and southern Colorado. Up to 36 inches of snow blanketed the Wolf Creek and Red Mountain passes of southwest Colorado, and up to 15 inches of snow was reported around Trinidad. In New Mexico, the eastern slopes of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains were blanketed with 9 to 28 inches of snow, and 50 to 60 mph wind gusts were reported from Taos to Albuquerque. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

2011 - Strong winds reaching as high as 40 mph with gusts to 53 mph topple the 48 year old National Christmas tree. The 42 foot tall Colorado blue spruce sat just south of the White House on the Ellipse. It was transplanted there from York, Pennsylvania in 1978. The Weather Doctor

 

 

1979

 

 

 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

5 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

They measured over 53 inches in 1993-94 though which was in line with the other airports.

 

No as I stated 93-94 they were low on their measurements on several events.

Central Park was not in line with the 2 airports it lies in between. Newark was 64.5 inches that season, LGA was 58.5, Central Park was noticeably lower than both at 53.4. Their real total there that season was closer to 60.

95-96 they were on top of their game and all three reporting stations were very much in line. If they didn't blow it on the January blizzard NYC would have been close to 80. Newark was 78.4, LGA 77.9 and NYC 75.6

[LibertyBell]

7 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

No as I stated 93-94 they were low on their measurements on several events.

Central Park was not in line with the 2 airports it lies in between. Newark was 64.5 inches that season, LGA was 58.5, Central Park was noticeably lower than both at 53.4. Their real total there that season was closer to 60.

I don't know about LGA, but I can see why the park total would be lower than both EWR and LGA, because that was a latitude based inland winter.  I know for  a fact they were several inches lower than EWR, because Newark killed it in the February events and the city changed over to rain.  JFK's total of 47 inches was also pretty accurate, I measured 49 inches here on Long Island.  If the park was off that winter, it wasn't by much.

 

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

33 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

I don't know about LGA, but I can see why the park total would be lower than both EWR and LGA, because that was a latitude based inland winter.  I know for  a fact they were several inches lower than EWR, because Newark killed it in the February events and the city changed over to rain.  JFK's total of 47 inches was also pretty accurate, I measured 49 inches here on Long Island.  If the park was off that winter, it wasn't by much.

 

If what you say about a latitude inland based winter that season is true than it would make sense that LGA would be even lower than NYC yet it's 5 inches higher that season. Central Parks latitude 40.7826N is a actually north of Newark 40.6895N and the same as LGA 40.7733N . They are 5 air miles from LGA and 10 from Newark at similar elevations. Snowfall amounts will vary even in such short distances but over an active season they will usually even out as 95-96 showed, there is less than a 3 inch difference between the three from highest to lowest. You can believe what you want but 93-94 they did not do a good job, there were several under measurements. They are usually an inch or two but do that on several events and that' how you end up with 53.4 when actually closer to 60 fell.

Forget about JFK when using comparisons to the Park, they are not similar at all, and JFK actually does a nice job measuring as most of the airports do regarding snowfall. The benefit of course for the airports is having someone on site to actually measure before snow melts and compresses. That is by far the biggest problem with the PARK measurements, and continues to be. Taking measurements as they often do 4-5 hours after snow ends will always be a low measurement no matter where you take it. Until they fix that simple thing it's never going to change.

[NEG NAO]

48 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Too early

March has been our snowiest month 

Easter is on March 31st this year - "I'm dreaming of a White Easter"........

[NEG NAO]

1 hour ago, donsutherland1 said:

Yes. NYC is likely in the early stages of a transition to lower seasonal snowfall.

Do you think they were saying that back in the early 1950's and the 1980's ?

monthlyseasonalsnowfall.pdf (weather.gov)

[bluewave]

9 minutes ago, NEG NAO said:

Do you think they were saying that back in the early 1950's and the 1980's ?

monthlyseasonalsnowfall.pdf (weather.gov)

The 50s and 80s were much colder than the present era. Less snowy winters in those years were still cold by todays standards. They were mostly the result of unfavorable storm tracks. This is the first time we are getting a combination of too warm for snow for numerous storm occasions plus unfavorable tracks. 

[MJO812]

5 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The 50s and 80s were much colder than the present era. Less snowy winters in those years were still cold by todays standards. They were mostly the result of unfavorable storm tracks. This is the first time we are getting a combination of too warm for snow for numerous storm occasions plus unfavorable tracks. 

Everything will most likely revert back. I doubt we will be below normal for good. 

[NEG NAO]

10 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The 50s and 80s were much colder than the present era. Less snowy winters in those years were still cold by todays standards. They were mostly the result of unfavorable storm tracks. This is the first time we are getting a combination of too warm for snow for numerous storm occasions plus unfavorable tracks. 

I don't think we have been experiencing the lower then normal seasonal snowfall region wide long enough to come to any decisive conclusions. I agree about "too warm". What happens with the snowfall theory when we get another 5 - 10 year period of above normal ? And as witnessed this season so far that might not include NYC Central Park because there are numerous factors affecting its ability to accumulate snow .............