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Snow Friday 1/19/24: is it a period of light snow (less than 2"), or is there a chance of a 5" swath in part of the NYC subforum? Event OBS.


wdrag
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21 minutes ago, wdrag said:

They have a difficult time targeting one area since people commutes 50 miles from a adverse zone to a safer zone so the whole state.  There's no doubt in mind souther nNJ is going to have a nice snowstorm today of potential 6-7"... bigger flakes, a little ocean instability contribution below 850 MB (a bit of ocean effect may get up to Monmouth Cty and s shore LI) and occasional banding.  

I could see banding up to between I78-I80, especially near 3PM when the nw upper level flow ij. NYS impinges on NJ way flow above 850 MB forcing convergence in the 800-600MB layer that is saturated.  We'll see what happens. 

I'd love to see OES on the south shore of LI, it's only happened a few times in my life.

We had 1.5" on 2/6/2010.

 

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Just now, Allsnow said:

Phl going to do very well with this today 

It’s gonna be close with this dry air and latest modeling has the ivt just south….I think northeast Maryland does better than my location of National Park NJ across from PHL.  Fighting the fizzle for now but dp and rh have been dropping as the first round of steady light snow gained a foothold last 35 minutes 

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1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

we could still get what we got in that storm (and that was also a daytime storm).

we got 1.5" on 2/6/2010 so that's possible again today

Staten Island (at least the southern part of it) got up to 6" while NYC only saw a trace lol.

 

Yep remember that storm clearly lol

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34 minutes ago, dseagull said:

Murphy administration issues a state of emergency if a kitten sneezes.  

Ever since the November 2018 storm which caught many off guard as it was underforcast in many areas, they panic every time a snow flake flies.

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1 minute ago, WIN said:

Ever since the November 2018 storm which caught many off guard as it was underforcast in many areas, they panic every time a snow flake flies.

Yea, I remember it well.  There were a few other events as well.  As I posted further up the thread, I understand the logic and how it is designed to open up the doors for emergency aid.  However, there are some inadvertent downsides to frequent issuance when used as a means of keeping people off the roads, which is so often the real focus.  

 

Either way, my comment was lounge in cheek.  Pine Barrens look to be jackpot land.  The roads will absolutely be an issue in rural areas.  

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12 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Where is the north trend when we needed it :(

Anyway first Winter Storm Warning in years for many places down south. 

I think the big PAC Jet extension kept the pattern too progressive so the storm went more ENE to our south than NE. Another case of the Pacific pattern leading to less snowfall than usual in recent years.

57091124-2C29-4B75-B798-F333FB5FACF1.thumb.png.a5cea7bc9a7aa8e645ba4ba3c1a946a8.png

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7 minutes ago, bluewave said:

I think the big PAC Jet extension kept the pattern too progressive so the storm went more ENE to our south than NE. Another case of the Pacific pattern leading to less snowfall than usual in recent years.

57091124-2C29-4B75-B798-F333FB5FACF1.thumb.png.a5cea7bc9a7aa8e645ba4ba3c1a946a8.png

it's also a weak storm with a very narrow area of precip correct? A more normal sized storm would easily get heavy snow into our area on that track

 

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8 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Yup, lots of problems on the roads.  6.5" I think.... the earliest 6" storm there on record I believe (here we had  8" on November 7, 2012 a week after Sandy, and 14" in Freehold.)

 

I understand getting blindsided like that, but the problem is that after a while, it becomes like the "boy who cried wolf". Also issuing a state of emergency preemptively should be saved for much bigger, widespread storms.

IF a state of emergency is issued in a situation like this it should be limited to the areas under the WSW.

Finally, issuing  a state for 4 to 6 inches of snow is an overreaction, period! Just MHO. I

 

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Surprised nobody posted the updated maps and advisories as the NWS-Philly finally dropped snowfall amounts considerably north of 195/276, dropped the warning for Monmouth and considered dropping the advisories for near/north of 80, but also expanded the warnings well down into SNJ, reflecting the shift in the snow axis the last day or so; NWS-NYC also dropped snowfall amounts some, but did retain their 2-3" advisories.  Like many of you, it's odd that it took this long.  The AFD from Mt. Holly is below.  

ixjGeqd.png

 

FgcdfuC.png

 

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH TONIGHT/...
One area of low pressure is tracking eastward across Virginia early
this morning, while a stronger coastal low is lifting northeastward
off Cape Hatteras. Light snow is breaking out ahead and to the north
of the former low and that snow will quickly spread across our
region from west to east through 8 AM this morning. While the
snow is initially fighting some lower level dry air, and will
not begin really picking up in intensity until mid to late
morning, travel conditions during the morning commute will
become slick, especially on untreated roads. Leave early, or
telework if you can. Overall, the forecast looks on track; there
is some rain mixing in along portions of the NJ shore and
southern Delaware, but that was expected. Areas just inland are
all snow at the moment, and temperatures/dewpoints across the
area suggest that the cold air in place is as-advertised.

Aloft, an initial shortwave bringing vorticity advection with mid-
level forcing for the initial batch of snow heading in. This is also
supported by some weak lower-level isentropic lift, and aided by
diffluence farther aloft from the left-exit region of a strong upper-
level jet streak. That shortwave will pass by to our northeast this
afternoon, while the two areas of low pressure merge and intensify
well offshore. However, another more potent shortwave and vorticity
maximum will approach from the west this afternoon, with vorticity
and much colder air aloft phasing in from the upper-low over the
Great Lakes. As a result, a mid-level low will attempt to close off,
off the southern NJ coast this afternoon, after passing across the
Delmarva. That will support an inverted trough extending back from
the strengthening storm offshore. Frontogenetic forcing and lower-
level convergence associated with the low aloft and the surface
trough respectively will be the key for focusing steadier and
heavier snow today.

Since Thursday afternoon, the last couple runs of various model
guidance has made a distinct shift south with the axis of heavier
snow amounts, focusing the inverted trough extending westward from
Friday`s coastal low back closer to the Delaware coast rather than
southern NJ. The initial steadier snow may set-up near the urban
corridor from Trenton southwest later this morning. Much of the
guidance suggests that the steadier snow will focus more on southern
NJ into Delaware at it`s peak this afternoon, and linger there
longest as the coastal low pulls away, dragging the inverted trough
behind it. While higher snow ratios may make up the difference for a
bit less liquid equivalent precipitation along the northern edge of
the steadier snow, with the southerly shift in the guidance, we had
to lower amounts by an inch or two across the northern half of our
area.

Considered dropping Advisory around Morris and Sussex Co NJ, but
given some fairly rough conditions for the evening commute as colder
air work in, it can be justified from an impacts standpoint. Did
drop the Warning for Monmouth County, as amounts look to fall short
of the 6" threshold there. Considered dropping Bucks to an Advisory
as well, but amounts are near enough to 5" criteria to let it ride a
this point. Meanwhile, farther south along the NJ shore and into the
Delmarva, with winds expected to stay more northeasterly (rather
than SE as earlier models projected), any initial rain may shift
over to snow more quickly with less marine influence. Additionally,
the axis of stronger forcing shifted south there as well. Added Kent
County (both MD and DE) along with inland Atlantic and Cumberland
County NJ to the Winter Storm Warning. Latest snow amounts in the
warning area are somewhat marginal for reaching criteria, right
around 5". However, given the tendency for higher ratios, the
possibility that models are underdoing some mesoscale lifting
mechanisms (coastal convergence, low-level convergence along the
inverted trough, and mid-level frontogenesis), we expect some
localized amounts near or even over 6 inches. Sometimes we expect
too much accuracy from the model guidance QPF; it would only take
another `surprise` 0.10-0.20 inches to exceed snowfall amounts by a
few inches.

While the snow may have a tendency to linger into this evening right
where the inverted trough sets up, probably near Delaware Bay,
forcing aloft will start to quickly diminish and progressively drier
air will filter in. Just about all guidance suggests any last bit of
snow will push off the coast by 9 PM.
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50 minutes ago, TJW014 said:


Also to give all the state workers PTO and overtime opportunities

I no longer believe the part about a State of Emergency means "automatic" funding.  I would assume you eventually have to prove lossess, hardships, spending, etc?  Declaring a State of Emergency for every raindrop, etc. is frivolous, irresponsible and has diminished and clouded the term "State of Emergency".  

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You guys realize it's still going to snow tomorrow for several hours. We aren't going from a signifcant snowfall to no snow at all just from a ceiling of 5 inches to a ceiling of 3. Enjoy the flakes, it will snow again

Sir, this is a Wendy’s


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4 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

Surprised nobody posted the updated maps and advisories as the NWS-Philly finally dropped snowfall amounts considerably north of 195/276, dropped the warning for Monmouth and considered dropping the advisories for near/north of 80, but also expanded the warnings well down into SNJ, reflecting the shift in the snow axis the last day or so; NWS-NYC also dropped snowfall amounts some, but did retain their 2-3" advisories.  Like many of you, it's odd that it took this long.  The AFD from Mt. Holly is below.  

ixjGeqd.png

 

FgcdfuC.png

 

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH TONIGHT/...
One area of low pressure is tracking eastward across Virginia early
this morning, while a stronger coastal low is lifting northeastward
off Cape Hatteras. Light snow is breaking out ahead and to the north
of the former low and that snow will quickly spread across our
region from west to east through 8 AM this morning. While the
snow is initially fighting some lower level dry air, and will
not begin really picking up in intensity until mid to late
morning, travel conditions during the morning commute will
become slick, especially on untreated roads. Leave early, or
telework if you can. Overall, the forecast looks on track; there
is some rain mixing in along portions of the NJ shore and
southern Delaware, but that was expected. Areas just inland are
all snow at the moment, and temperatures/dewpoints across the
area suggest that the cold air in place is as-advertised.

Aloft, an initial shortwave bringing vorticity advection with mid-
level forcing for the initial batch of snow heading in. This is also
supported by some weak lower-level isentropic lift, and aided by
diffluence farther aloft from the left-exit region of a strong upper-
level jet streak. That shortwave will pass by to our northeast this
afternoon, while the two areas of low pressure merge and intensify
well offshore. However, another more potent shortwave and vorticity
maximum will approach from the west this afternoon, with vorticity
and much colder air aloft phasing in from the upper-low over the
Great Lakes. As a result, a mid-level low will attempt to close off,
off the southern NJ coast this afternoon, after passing across the
Delmarva. That will support an inverted trough extending back from
the strengthening storm offshore. Frontogenetic forcing and lower-
level convergence associated with the low aloft and the surface
trough respectively will be the key for focusing steadier and
heavier snow today.

Since Thursday afternoon, the last couple runs of various model
guidance has made a distinct shift south with the axis of heavier
snow amounts, focusing the inverted trough extending westward from
Friday`s coastal low back closer to the Delaware coast rather than
southern NJ. The initial steadier snow may set-up near the urban
corridor from Trenton southwest later this morning. Much of the
guidance suggests that the steadier snow will focus more on southern
NJ into Delaware at it`s peak this afternoon, and linger there
longest as the coastal low pulls away, dragging the inverted trough
behind it. While higher snow ratios may make up the difference for a
bit less liquid equivalent precipitation along the northern edge of
the steadier snow, with the southerly shift in the guidance, we had
to lower amounts by an inch or two across the northern half of our
area.

Considered dropping Advisory around Morris and Sussex Co NJ, but
given some fairly rough conditions for the evening commute as colder
air work in, it can be justified from an impacts standpoint. Did
drop the Warning for Monmouth County, as amounts look to fall short
of the 6" threshold there. Considered dropping Bucks to an Advisory
as well, but amounts are near enough to 5" criteria to let it ride a
this point. Meanwhile, farther south along the NJ shore and into the
Delmarva, with winds expected to stay more northeasterly (rather
than SE as earlier models projected), any initial rain may shift
over to snow more quickly with less marine influence. Additionally,
the axis of stronger forcing shifted south there as well. Added Kent
County (both MD and DE) along with inland Atlantic and Cumberland
County NJ to the Winter Storm Warning. Latest snow amounts in the
warning area are somewhat marginal for reaching criteria, right
around 5". However, given the tendency for higher ratios, the
possibility that models are underdoing some mesoscale lifting
mechanisms (coastal convergence, low-level convergence along the
inverted trough, and mid-level frontogenesis), we expect some
localized amounts near or even over 6 inches. Sometimes we expect
too much accuracy from the model guidance QPF; it would only take
another `surprise` 0.10-0.20 inches to exceed snowfall amounts by a
few inches.

While the snow may have a tendency to linger into this evening right
where the inverted trough sets up, probably near Delaware Bay,
forcing aloft will start to quickly diminish and progressively drier
air will filter in. Just about all guidance suggests any last bit of
snow will push off the coast by 9 PM.

One of the best discussions I have ever come across...

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