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Mid to Long Range Discussion ~ 2024


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 Compared to the 18 cold ENSO Jans since 1991: the mean of the last 12 runs of the 4 member CFS ensemble has the SE at the 3rd coldest Jan 7-13 for cold ENSO behind only 2011 and 1996 with an avg of ~4.5-5F BN:

IMG_1157.thumb.png.19e43b3fc7c1de3fdfe63a7deeb8aed7.png
 

Just one week ago, this is how much warmer the 12 run CFS ens mean was: ~2F AN

IMG_1158.thumb.png.94671ba71743d75d3e6d048e789a6216.png
 Getting a week to average 5F BN is not the least bit easy!


 Precip is ~normal, which is good because that is wetter than the majority of cold periods since cold is more often than not associated with BN precip in the SE. Also, Jan 7-13 normal precip is pretty significant, especially well inland. So, it appears that there would be a decent shot at wintry precip during this period if the last 12 CFS runs have the right idea (possible Gulf moisture):

IMG_1159.thumb.png.68d97327ed128cf1c5592314dd91c686.png

 

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 The 12Z EPS 360 hour has about as negative H5 anomalies as I can recall on any run at 360 centered in the E US. NYC is at 534 dm, which is a whopping 14-15 dm BN! Keep in mind that that is a 50 member ensemble mean out 15 days, a very difficult modeled anomaly to have.

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 Today’s Euro Weeklies for Jan 6-12 has the 3rd shade of cold covering most of the E US vs just a tiny area in the 3rd shade mainly in NC the last 4 days. The third shade is 3-6C BN or 5.4-10.8F BN averaged over a full week! That’s easily the coldest EW map that I have saved in my files (all from the last 3 winters) in the SE for a week that doesn’t even start for 13 days. Note how far out this 3rd shade goes offshore as well as deep into FL: @pcbjr

IMG_1170.thumb.webp.caf50569ea42e72e04122c474d90de2e.webp
 

Precip anomaly map is similar to the CFS map I posted earlier: this has NN in the SE, which is as much as I’d ask for with it this cold. The green in the N Gulf suggests the possibility of a Miller A Gulf low:

IMG_1168.thumb.webp.f2d27bf0d2b8d4ab0cddb746f71626f9.webp
 
 The following week (1/13-19) is also cold though it only shows the 2nd shade of blue so far (still 20+ days out).

————-

Edit: The only other EE map I have that is comparable (slightly warmer SE) with most of the SE US in 5.4-10.8F BN is closer in at 9 days out (11/23/24) preceding Dec 2-8. How did it verify?

Wilmington, NC (map: ~-6F): actual was -10.9F (so, it wasn’t nearly cold enough)

Savannah (map ~-5.5F): actual was -9.7 (so, it wasn’t nearly cold enough)

 If this verification were to happen to be an indication of what’s to come Jan 6-12, the SE (at the very least) would verify colder then what today’s map shows. Also, if the strong cold signal maintains itself, look for a portion of this going into the 4th shade of blue on a run within a few days. The 4th shade starts at -10.8F.

 

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We can kid ourselves all we want with these epic ECMWF And it’s ensemble solutions but all we’re setting ourselves for is bouts of cold rain. Until it snows again I don’t believe it can. No analysis in this but I just have this gut feeling this is going to be a major letdown and in a few weeks we’ll be taking about fabulous February and a strat warning event or some blocking pattern that resulted in snow 32 years ago or a split flow that holds off and happens in April. Anyways I regress, merry Christmas to everyone! 

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2 hours ago, NorthHillsWx said:

We can kid ourselves all we want with these epic ECMWF And it’s ensemble solutions but all we’re setting ourselves for is bouts of cold rain. Until it snows again I don’t believe it can. No analysis in this but I just have this gut feeling this is going to be a major letdown and in a few weeks we’ll be taking about fabulous February and a strat warning event or some blocking pattern that resulted in snow 32 years ago or a split flow that holds off and happens in April. Anyways I regress, merry Christmas to everyone! 

I felt the same way when we went through the late 90s snow drought. Then Jan 2000 came.

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2 hours ago, NorthHillsWx said:

We can kid ourselves all we want with these epic ECMWF And it’s ensemble solutions but all we’re setting ourselves for is bouts of cold rain. Until it snows again I don’t believe it can. No analysis in this but I just have this gut feeling this is going to be a major letdown and in a few weeks we’ll be taking about fabulous February and a strat warning event or some blocking pattern that resulted in snow 32 years ago or a split flow that holds off and happens in April. Anyways I regress, merry Christmas to everyone! 

Don’t forget March 1960.  Good snows only 65 years ago.  I still hear about those three Wednesdays and that we get our biggest snows in March.

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Eric Webb: 

Pepperidge farm remembers when the "record" cold PDO was supposed to give us a -PNA/SE ridge pattern all winter long this year.

Instead, the exact opposite has happened/is continuing to happen & the PDO is rapidly rising.

A lot of people finding out the hard way that the PDO has no value in winter forecasting & it doesn't "force" the extratropical wave pattern, even in an extreme state. 

The PDO is at the mercy of the tropics & the atmosphere

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 When I start counting more than just a couple of ensemble members with wintry precip in FL (anywhere from T to measurable), it starts to get my attention for especially us deep SE folks where it is pretty rare. I haven’t had even just a T of any kind of wintry precip in nearly 7 years, the longest for this area at least going back 140 years!

 The latest runs of 2 of the 3 major ensembles all have the largest # of members like that yet this season (not surprising considering how cold they are and the strong hint of multiple cold plunges as opposed to just one and done).

-18Z GEFS: 11 of 30 (37%) have it in FL! Prior 3 runs had 5 each. This usually has highest of the 3 ens but 37% is still very impressive!

-12Z GEPS: 4 of 20 (20%); 0Z had only 1 and yesterday’s 12Z had none

-12Z EPS: 4 of 50 (8%) but 0Z had 7 of 50 (14%); this usually has lowest of the 3 ens.   

-The bulk of the wintry events are near the end (Jan 8-10) but a couple on the GEPS are as early as Jan 4.

@pcbjr

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