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January 2024 -- Discussion


moneypitmike
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44 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

Eh. Sure.

Perhaps we’re not evaluating these maps similarly. I’m doing more than just reading T values/anomalies but keying on which air masses are where. I.e., if signs indicate CP airmass just to our north/west, I wouldn’t be making the observation.

I’m in agreement that this window is best in a while, but still doesn’t look good imo. 

Well, this has triggered me to check.

Firstly, I prefer to keep a D9-13 "signal" pretty coarse.  It's even less deterministically useful at a range of 9 days (Jesus) just trying to get the deep tropospheric signal to emerge.  When signal are still attempting to emerge ... that seems backward in an operational sense.   Confidence should improve in the emergence side, first ... then, along the way ..sure, increase evaluation efforts with those details.  So yeah - I guess we have different approach.

Having said that, the 850 mb thermal layout on the 4th in the EPS is ample cold enough.  I realize that is not the BL but the BL temperature and hydrostatic thicknesses mean almost nothing in the midst of the solar min with any sufficiently strong system penetrating this particular layout - I'm just not seeing a warm BL problem given these initial conditions

eps_T850a_namer_40.png

I checked the other ens systems and they're not significantly different.  I'm done looking ( for now) for reasons/philosophy of approach I just described above.  

So, we'll see -

Look, your post "timing" was pounced in character, as though going after snow enthusiasts?  haha.  Lord knows that is a lot of fun. But, I don't really give a fuck if it rains or snows at this range.  I care about being right and having insight on periods of interest.  Having said that, these critical level thermal field projections (above) centered mid way through the 4th -6th are encouraging considering everything that is substantive from this range.

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27 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

Is it too late in the season to get any giant typhoons and better yet, a recurving typhoon? 

You want them now... but in terms of OHC and SSTs and all that?    The western Pacific climatology makes their season open ended compared to the Atlantic Basin.  It does contract to the SW - similar to the Atlantic - but it doesn't really shut down. 

The other thing - and this is purely John speculation haha ... - the typhoon recurving seems to really be after the mode of the circulation from the Indian Ocean to the Date Line are already transmitting a change around the hemisphere.  The typhoon occurs because of that. 

The circuitry there is that the TC latency inject plume enters the circulation and gives the R-wave signature a boost - typically in the EPO domain and the ridge benefits which then in turn helps the cold loading into N/A.

LOL, why ... is there a typhoon recurving?  haven't checked

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13 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

EPS are a little more bullish on 1/7 than 1/5…the 1/5 wave a weaker and more seaward but still has some decent members. The 1/7 wave seems to have a lot more members and the mean is closer to the BM. 
 

 

IMG_9981.png

Yeah ...I saw that.   But, the wave spacing is really close to the 4-6th, which is real enough and from what I see, has been +trend in recency. If this latter aspect were not in play, I'd be more inclined to lean - not that I'm exactly leaning to begin with. haha. Too early

Typically when we get these sort of contention/spacing -related looks, the lead ends up winning the debate.  

that is, honestly, more old school model performance-wise.  Still, I'm not sure if at 9 day ( Jan 5) lead, the models can't swap those out.

We'll see.  I like the whole period of time so -

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9 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

You want them now... but in terms of OHC and SSTs and all that?    The western Pacific climatology makes their season open ended compared to the Atlantic Basin.  It does contract to the SW - similar to the Atlantic - but it doesn't really shut down. 

The other thing - and this is purely John speculation haha ... - the typhoon recurving seems to really be after the mode of the circulation from the Indian Ocean to the Date Line are already transmitting a change around the hemisphere.  The typhoon occurs because of that. 

The circuitry there is that that the latency inject plume enters the circulation and gives the R-wave signature a boost - typically in the EPO domain and the ridge benefits which then in turn helps the cold loading into N/A.

LOL, why ... is there a typhoon recurving?  haven't checked

Thanks for the explanation on this!

As for the bolded...ehhh just thinking of ways we can just significantly alter things and on the more quicker side of the spectrum :lol: 

I am just getting a little nervous that if we keep harping on and reflecting on "subtle" changes this winter is going to turn into a dud very quickly. I see no reason to deviate from my winter outlook thoughts, but at some point going to have to ask myself, "where is the line between wishing and reality"?

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On 12/24/2023 at 8:57 AM, ORH_wxman said:

Yes it would still be useful even if PV goes to other side because it promotes a -AO. When you have that in an El Niño, your chances for big storms drastically increase. 
 

As always, no guarantees it works out but also as always, you want as many variables in your favor as possible. 

Your lips to G-d's ears.

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35 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Beginning to think ratter on the table based on historical snow from Nov to Jan 1 no season with under an inch has been anywhere near normal

Screenshot_20231227_112431_Chrome.jpg

 

24 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Yup. The further we push into Jan without much to show for…we’ll need a biggie or two just to get us back on track to normal. 

The numbers are what the numbers are. There is a reason when we are skunked through December into Jan, the numbers aren’t good. Too much ground to make up.

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7 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

 

The numbers are what the numbers are. There is a reason when we are skunked through December into Jan, the numbers aren’t good. Too much ground to make up.

I don't care if I end up with a total snowfall near my average, I just want a 15-20 incher and a couple moderate storms mixed in. Just want kit to look like winter for a few weeks, is that too much to ask? Of course, I would take one 2-3 footer too.

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57 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Beginning to think ratter on the table based on historical snow from Nov to Jan 1 no season with under an inch has been anywhere near normal

Screenshot_20231227_112431_Chrome.jpg

I think we’re quickly moving the goalposts from a near normal season to solidly below.  This doesn’t mean we can’t have a good/fun stretch at some point.  Not sure of a true rat yet. 
 

Today is just another day where it feels and smells like we’re mid-rat. 

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1 minute ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Lol I would never pay that on these conditions. I doubt anyone but the most hardcore skiers would. 

Nobody is skiing there except season pass holders or maybe the few unlucky families that booked that week in advance. 

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