OrdIowPitMsp Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 The record warmth this winter is one thing, it happens every 150 years or so around these parts. The zzzzzz pattern we’ve been in since Christmas with nothing to track is wearing on me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, OrdIowPitMsp said: The record warmth this winter is one thing, it happens every 150 years or so around these parts. The zzzzzz pattern we’ve been in since Christmas with nothing to track is wearing on me though. I too hate zzzzzz patterns. Luckily January around here was great. But February has been a complete zzzzzz fest so I will say I haven't minded the mild February as it has been sunny. It would have been horrible to be cold and zzzzzz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 not our sub but check this plume 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 22 hours ago, Lightning said: I too hate zzzzzz patterns. Luckily January around here was great. But February has been a complete zzzzzz fest so I will say I haven't minded the mild February as it has been sunny. It would have been horrible to be cold and zzzzzz. After the wettest January on record, this will end up likely being one of the driest Februaries on record, unless we get a really good storm tonight. Thus far, there have only been a few measurable snowfalls, and no measurable rainfall in February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, michsnowfreak said: After the wettest January on record, this will end up likely being one of the driest Februaries on record, unless we get a really good storm tonight. Thus far, there have only been a few measurable snowfalls, and no measurable rainfall in February. This is why I love the weather. Always different from extremes to completely boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 Some things never change. Yesterday I was in the bullseye for best chance of severe weather. Who gets the strongly worded Tornado Watch? ORD. Just like a winter storm. Well, I guess it is technically still winter. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 GFS continues to look snowless. Would be remarkable if we go the entire rest of March and April without any winter storm. i don't think there is any winter that went snowless after mid Jan and that too coming off a snowless December. Outside of a weak clipper in mid Feb, it's been incredibly warm and snowless. @mississaugasnow Pretty much unheard of at our latitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississaugasnow Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, Snowstorms said: GFS continues to look snowless. Would be remarkable if we go the entire rest of March and April without any winter storm. i don't think there is any winter that went snowless after mid Jan and that too coming off a snowless December. Outside of a weak clipper in mid Feb, it's been incredibly warm and snowless. @mississaugasnow Pretty much unheard of at our latitude. Weather networks spring forecast expects an active March but drying out April/May. Above normal temps. Toronto is at 19.1" on the season and should see 0.5-1" tonight. Hamilton is only around 13-14" on the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnwx85 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Well outside of our sub but it's worth a mention. Sierra Nevada Blizzard Warning for three days. Lake Tahoe communities expecting 2 to 4 feet with 60 mph winds. My dream is to spend at least one winter out there. Extended Forecast for South Lake Tahoe CA Thursday Night Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Widespread blowing snow, mainly between midnight and 5am. Low around 29. Windy, with a southwest wind 25 to 30 mph, with gusts as high as 50 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of 5 to 9 inches possible. Friday Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Widespread blowing snow, mainly after 11am. High near 33. Breezy, with a southwest wind around 25 mph, with gusts as high as 45 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of 7 to 11 inches possible. Friday Night Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Widespread blowing snow. Low around 25. Windy, with a southwest wind 25 to 30 mph, with gusts as high as 55 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 14 to 20 inches possible. Saturday Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Widespread blowing snow, mainly before 11am. High near 28. Breezy. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 10 to 16 inches possible. Saturday Night Snow before 11pm, then snow showers likely after 11pm. The snow could be heavy at times. Patchy blowing snow before 11pm. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 17. Breezy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Skilling road off into the sunset tonight… 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 21 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said: Skilling road off into the sunset tonight… Sad to see, but what a great career. Grew up watching him like so many others. Unfortunately couldn't see his forecasts on TV anymore after WGN America became a thing, and WGN news wasn't available to us outside of Chicagoland. That happened 10 years ago or so IIRC. Hopefully he has a relaxing/long retirement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 8 hours ago, Chicago Storm said: Skilling road off into the sunset tonight… Legend Here is his last sign off I have watched him from back when I was a kid and we had cable. He was just so informative whenever it came down to blizzards or severe weather but presented the information so anyone could understand. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 This winter (DJF) is officially the warmest on record at YYZ with a mean temperature of 32.5 (0.3C) and 0.5 ahead of the previous record holder (2001-02). Other top 6 winters are 2011-12, 2015-16, 2022-23, 1997-98, 2016-17, and 2019-20. 5 of the top 8 have been since 2015-16 which is fucked. @mississaugasnow Either the warming has exponentially accelerated or this is just a result of the 2015-16 super nino hangover on the globe. Hard to say right now but facts are facts. Winters are getting warmer. Only 2013-14 and 2014-15 are the two recent winters to be in the top 12 coldest at YYZ. Everything else is pre 1982. Snow is nothing more than just a byproduct of the existing pattern. It takes just one or two storms or a "snowy" week to change the outcome between a snowless and snowier winter. We saw that perfectly this winter. The warmer oceans maybe playing a role in enhancing storms. But if we continue on this warming trend, at some point, snow will play catch up and we'll have to constantly deal with marginal temperatures and mixing. 1972-73, a key analog some have used for this winter, was considerably colder across the entire continent. And some other notable strong Nino's (1965-66 or 1957-58) were also considerably colder. The 1982-83 super nino changed the game and every strong/super Nino since then has been incredibly warm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 4 minutes ago, Snowstorms said: This winter (DJF) is officially the warmest on record at YYZ with a mean temperature of 32.5 (0.3C) and 0.5 ahead of the previous record holder (2001-02). Other top 6 winters are 2011-12, 2015-16, 2022-23, 1997-98, 2016-17, and 2019-20. 5 of the top 8 have been since 2015-16 which is fucked. @mississaugasnow Either the warming has exponentially accelerated or this is just a result of the 2015-16 super nino hangover on the globe. Hard to say right now but facts are facts. Winters are getting warmer. Only 2013-14 and 2014-15 are the two recent winters to be in the top 12 coldest at YYZ. Everything else is pre 1982. Snow is nothing more than just a byproduct of the existing pattern. It takes just one or two storms or a "snowy" week to change the outcome between a snowless and snowier winter. We saw that perfectly this winter. The warmer oceans maybe playing a role in enhancing storms. But if we continue on this warming trend, at some point, snow will play catch up and we'll have to constantly deal with marginal temperatures and mixing. 1972-73, a key analog some have used for this winter, was considerably colder across the entire continent. And some other notable strong Nino's (1965-66 or 1957-58) were also considerably colder. The 1982-83 super nino changed the game and every strong/super Nino since then has been incredibly warm. How far back to YYZ records go? Surprised none of those warm 1870s-80s winters weren't on the list. 1957-58 and 1965-66 locally had warm, wet Decembers followed by cold dry rest of winter. Each had less snow here than this winter and were really many weenies nightmare pattern (warm and wet to cold and dry). It's surprising that 1957-58 wasn't warmer (outside December) due to a strong Nino and many mild winters preceeding that year. 1972-73 was interesting. It was amidst one of the coldest stretches of the climate record, so I'm wondering if that made it a bit colder overall (arguably the same for 1965-66). We had enough snow to make it an avg snow season (even a tick above at the time). January was warm and snowless but Feb was cold. The first half of March was and still is the warmest on record then we got slammed with a big St Paddy's day snowstorm. Some historic strong Ninos that were very warm winters include 1877-78, 1905-06, & 1918-19. Most areas had little snow as well (esp 1918-19). My take is that strong Ninos are going to have other factors at play (the current weather/climate cycle of the time, Pacific, blocking, PNA, NAO, etc) but in the end, a strong El Nino is never a sign for a good winter, at least in the Great Lakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississaugasnow Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 48 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said: How far back to YYZ records go? Surprised none of those warm 1870s-80s winters weren't on the list. 1957-58 and 1965-66 locally had warm, wet Decembers followed by cold dry rest of winter. Each had less snow here than this winter and were really many weenies nightmare pattern (warm and wet to cold and dry). It's surprising that 1957-58 wasn't warmer (outside December) due to a strong Nino and many mild winters preceeding that year. 1972-73 was interesting. It was amidst one of the coldest stretches of the climate record, so I'm wondering if that made it a bit colder overall (arguably the same for 1965-66). We had enough snow to make it an avg snow season (even a tick above at the time). January was warm and snowless but Feb was cold. The first half of March was and still is the warmest on record then we got slammed with a big St Paddy's day snowstorm. Some historic strong Ninos that were very warm winters include 1877-78, 1905-06, & 1918-19. Most areas had little snow as well (esp 1918-19). My take is that strong Ninos are going to have other factors at play (the current weather/climate cycle of the time, Pacific, blocking, PNA, NAO, etc) but in the end, a strong El Nino is never a sign for a good winter, at least in the Great Lakes. YYZ goes back to 1937 I believe It’s evident something has changed in this region. I think it’s a combination of bad luck, CC, other factors such as urban heat island as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississaugasnow Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 For DC cherry blossoms. “Historical bloom data shows the average peak has moved up by about five days, from April 4 to March 31. Last year, peak bloom was March 23. It was recorded on March 21 in 2022. The earliest peak bloom on record occurred on March 15, 1990” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorms Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said: How far back to YYZ records go? Surprised none of those warm 1870s-80s winters weren't on the list. 1957-58 and 1965-66 locally had warm, wet Decembers followed by cold dry rest of winter. Each had less snow here than this winter and were really many weenies nightmare pattern (warm and wet to cold and dry). It's surprising that 1957-58 wasn't warmer (outside December) due to a strong Nino and many mild winters preceeding that year. 1972-73 was interesting. It was amidst one of the coldest stretches of the climate record, so I'm wondering if that made it a bit colder overall (arguably the same for 1965-66). We had enough snow to make it an avg snow season (even a tick above at the time). January was warm and snowless but Feb was cold. The first half of March was and still is the warmest on record then we got slammed with a big St Paddy's day snowstorm. Some historic strong Ninos that were very warm winters include 1877-78, 1905-06, & 1918-19. Most areas had little snow as well (esp 1918-19). My take is that strong Ninos are going to have other factors at play (the current weather/climate cycle of the time, Pacific, blocking, PNA, NAO, etc) but in the end, a strong El Nino is never a sign for a good winter, at least in the Great Lakes. YYZ only goes back to 1938. Here's the top 10 for Toronto going back to 1840. I used Toronto till the mid 1950s and YYZ thereafter because of the continued industrial revolution skewing anomalies. As of now 1931-32 holds the title for us. I guess you could make an argument that those pre 1955 winters if they happened today with all the UHI, they would be a lot warmer. Therefore, for that time, which is considered to be a much cooler time globally, those winters were incredibly warm vs normal. We lucked out in 1965-66 with 27" in January but snowfall outside of January was abysmal. And 1957-58 was shit here too, snow wise. Temperature wise both winters finished slightly above average but not by much. We finished near average for 1972-73 too, primarily thanks to a snowy November and December where 60% of our winter snow fell in those 2 months. I made a post in the other thread about strong Nino's. Every strong/super Nino since 1982-83 has been an absolute blowtorch across North America. Quite the opposite with other notable strong Nino's like 1972-73, 1965-66, and 1957-58. It seems like 1982-83 was the tipping point. Though aside from the temperature anomalies, one thing remains constant. They were all largely snowless for the entire region. We seem to fair much better and snowier with strong La Nina's. Of the majority of YYZ's top 10 snowiest winters, most are strong Nina's. I'd assume it's the same for Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 28 minutes ago, Snowstorms said: YYZ only goes back to 1938. Here's the top 10 for Toronto going back to 1840. I used Toronto till the mid 1950s and YYZ thereafter because of the continued industrial revolution skewing anomalies. As of now 1931-32 holds the title for us. I guess you could make an argument that those pre 1955 winters if they happened today with all the UHI, they would be a lot warmer. Therefore, for that time, which is considered to be a much cooler time globally, those winters were incredibly warm vs normal. We lucked out in 1965-66 with 27" in January but snowfall outside of January was abysmal. And 1957-58 was shit here too, snow wise. Temperature wise both winters finished slightly above average but not by much. We finished near average for 1972-73 too, primarily thanks to a snowy November and December where 60% of our winter snow fell in those 2 months. I made a post in the other thread about strong Nino's. Every strong/super Nino since 1982-83 has been an absolute blowtorch across North America. Quite the opposite with other notable strong Nino's like 1972-73, 1965-66, and 1957-58. It seems like 1982-83 was the tipping point. Though aside from the temperature anomalies, one thing remains constant. They were all largely snowless for the entire region. We seem to fair much better and snowier with strong La Nina's. Of the majority of YYZ's top 10 snowiest winters, most are strong Nina's. I'd assume it's the same for Detroit. I also like to look at trends in general for the region (even though I hone in on Detroit). LOTS of mild winters in the 1930s-50s. Im fact, in particular the early 1930s & early to mid 1950s winters were absolutely dominated by warmth and lack of snow. But then an abrupt shift in the 1960s-70s. I mean there were a few scattered warm winter months for sure, but any shitty winter in the 1960s-70s would most likely be due to bad snow patterns rather than warmth. But one of the most intriguing things Ive ever seen in the climate record is the winter yo-yo from 1874-1882. I have noticed it before in passing, but I really started paying more attention to it with this winters warmth making news about Minneapolis surpassing the infamous 1877-78. This stretch of years literally alternated from furnace to ice box every other year. WHAT in the world was going on with the weather patterns over that 8 winter stretch? Each of the 8 winters has remained firmly entrenched in Detroits top 20 coldest/warmest winters list (4 a piece) for the last 140+ years. (all rankings current as of 2024) 1874-75: #2 coldest Detroit, #15 coldest Chicago, #7 coldest Toledo 1875-76: #19 warmest Detroit, #7 warmest Chicago, #9 warmest Toledo 1876-77: #19 coldest Detroit 1877-78: #16 warmest Detroit, #1 warmest Chicago, #8 warmest Toledo 1878-79: #14 coldest Detroit 1879-80: #12 warmest Detroit, #3 warmest Chicago, #2 warmest Toledo 1880-81: #13 coldest Detroit 1881-82: #1 warmest Detroit, #4 warmest Chicago, #5 warmest Toledo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 With meteorological winter in the books, here is how things shaped up in southeast Michigan. It was the fourth warmest in the threaded record (dating to 1874-1875). It was the warmest on record at Detroit City Airport (dating to 1933-1934) and the warmest on record at Detroit Metropolitan Wayne Airport (dating to 1958-1959). Interestingly, the 36.6F mean temperature at DET [which was the official observation site from 1934-1966] would have placed second warmest in the threaded record. Last winter's value of 35.2F would have placed third [or fourth if you also included this winter]. The station thread is as follows: Threaded record City Airport Detroit Metropolitan Wayne International Airport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Difficult to unseat those historic downtown city office readings with a sub-standard north-facing window or rooftop exposure for the instrument shelter, and the enhanced UHI and proximity to the river. But fourth place is still quite impressive. Warmest since 1931-1932 officially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 9 hours ago, TheClimateChanger said: Difficult to unseat those historic downtown city office readings with a sub-standard north-facing window or rooftop exposure for the instrument shelter, and the enhanced UHI and proximity to the river. But fourth place is still quite impressive. Warmest since 1931-1932 officially. The instrumentation at DTW is none of this, I don't know what your motive here is but you might want to stop it. The instruments on the field have been in the same spot for almost 40 years and my office where we would take back up readings if needed isn't some north facing sub-standard office. We are in a ramp control tower with 360 degree view of the entire airfield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 13 minutes ago, Stebo said: The instrumentation at DTW is none of this, I don't know what your motive here is but you might want to stop it. The instruments on the field have been in the same spot for almost 40 years and my office where we would take back up readings if needed isn't some north facing sub-standard office. We are in a ramp control tower with 360 degree view of the entire airfield. I’m talking about the city office records, which were indeed a north-facing window exposure for the first several years, and rooftop exposure thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The point is we are comparing temperatures collected over grass or sod from modern aspirated temperature sensors to mercury thermometers housed in shelters in a window enclosure or on rooftops. Obviously, it would be substantially warmer if the official observation was still taken downtown on a rooftop. And then we have people in this thread lying about there being LESS UHI in 1930. The population of Detroit was 1.6 million in 1930, and the official observation site was on the rooftop of the Majestic Building downtown at 1011 Woodward. All I'm doing is providing actual data... it was indeed the warmest on record at DET back to 1933-1934 and at DTW back to 1958-1959, as well as the fourth warmest in the threaded record back to 1874 [1870-1871, if you include the tri-daily means pre-1874], while also providing useful information about the historic location and exposure of the official station in the threaded record, and countering disinformation. Station history from 1949 annual publication: Useful information on impacts of rooftop exposure versus sod/grass: How not to measure temperature, part 48. NOAA cites errors with Baltimore's Rooftop USHCN Station – Watts Up With That? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 6 hours ago, Stebo said: The instrumentation at DTW is none of this, I don't know what your motive here is but you might want to stop it. The instruments on the field have been in the same spot for almost 40 years and my office where we would take back up readings if needed isn't some north facing sub-standard office. We are in a ramp control tower with 360 degree view of the entire airfield. I have had extensive knowledge of Detroits entire climate record for decades, a local climate history encyclopedia if you will. Most long time posters here know this. It's interesting that all of a sudden, someone who does not live anywhere near here is an expert on our climate history . It goes without saying that things are different now than they were 150 years ago in many aspects at any climate station. The picking and choosing of what old data we like & don't like is ridiculous. Detroits roads were DIRT in the 19th century and the transportation was HORSES. Yes, i can see how taking temps in the exact spot now in a concrete jungle with cars everywhere is apples to apples . Present day DTW, while absolutely properly calibrated, placed, sheltered & monitored, is still near tons of concrete, especially since new runways were built several years ago. Meanwhile, Detroit City airport hasn't been a 1st order station since 1966. All automated, the record is sprinkled with missing data, questionable temperatures, no snowfall reports, and questionable rainfall amounts- it is no more accurate or used for official purposes than any other coop site. Lastly I am not surprised that the top three are being undermined by him, I fully expected it. But any and all available records for the area are similar. 1881-82, 1931-32, 1889-90 were very warm winters, and none of them had anywhere close to the stretch of wintry weather we saw for a few weeks this January. That is the difference. Toledo also placed at 4th warmest winter, edging out 1881-82 by 0.1° but behind 1889-90, 1931-32, & 1879-80. Chicago placed 5th, behind 1877-78, 1931-32, 1879-80, 1881-82. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocATL Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Amazing to see my shrubs beginning to leaf at the same time they would where I lived in the mid south.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 8 hours ago, michsnowfreak said: I have had extensive knowledge of Detroits entire climate record for decades, a local climate history encyclopedia if you will. Most long time posters here know this. It's interesting that all of a sudden, someone who does not live anywhere near here is an expert on our climate history . It goes without saying that things are different now than they were 150 years ago in many aspects at any climate station. The picking and choosing of what old data we like & don't like is ridiculous. Detroits roads were DIRT in the 19th century and the transportation was HORSES. Yes, i can see how taking temps in the exact spot now in a concrete jungle with cars everywhere is apples to apples . Present day DTW, while absolutely properly calibrated, placed, sheltered & monitored, is still near tons of concrete, especially since new runways were built several years ago. Meanwhile, Detroit City airport hasn't been a 1st order station since 1966. All automated, the record is sprinkled with missing data, questionable temperatures, no snowfall reports, and questionable rainfall amounts- it is no more accurate or used for official purposes than any other coop site. Lastly I am not surprised that the top three are being undermined by him, I fully expected it. But any and all available records for the area are similar. 1881-82, 1931-32, 1889-90 were very warm winters, and none of them had anywhere close to the stretch of wintry weather we saw for a few weeks this January. That is the difference. Toledo also placed at 4th warmest winter, edging out 1881-82 by 0.1° but behind 1889-90, 1931-32, & 1879-80. Chicago placed 5th, behind 1877-78, 1931-32, 1879-80, 1881-82. Both of those were at lakeside observatories on a rooftop. C'mon man, you would have loved this. These are the glory days for Detroit. In the modern threaded record, there are only 15 years that had a peak snow depth of 12" or more at Detroit [out of 77 years]. The maximum is 24" from the winter of 1998-1999. From 1885-1886 to 1911-12 (rounding to the nearest inch), the following peak depths were noted: (1) 26" in 1899-1900 (2) 25" in 1885-1886 [in April, no less!] (3) 18" in 1892-1893 (4) 16" in 1904-1905 (5) 15" in 1907-1908 (6) 15" in 1903-1904 (7) 14" in 1893-1894 (8) 14" in 1894-1895 (9) 14" in 1909-1910 (10) 13" in 1911-1912 (11) 12" in 1910-1911 (12) 12" in 1908-1909 (13) 11" in 1900-1901 (14) 11" in 1898-1899 That's 12 years with 12"+ more peak depth, and 14 with 11" or more, in just 27 winters, compared to 15 & 18 in 77 winters with daily snow depth data - including two years with peak depths higher than any observed in the most recent 77 winters. Look at the 24 hour snowfalls - at least 8 double digit snowfalls [possible additional ones, since I didn't check], including 4 years with 12"+ [and a fifth at 11.8"] with one having observed more than 24" in a 24 hour period. This is clearly a higher frequency of big storms and deep snow depth than recent decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, TheClimateChanger said: Both of those were at lakeside observatories on a rooftop. C'mon man, you would have loved this. These are the glory days for Detroit. In the modern threaded record, there are only 15 years that had a peak snow depth of 12" or more at Detroit [out of 77 years]. The maximum is 24" from the winter of 1998-1999. From 1885-1886 to 1911-12 (rounding to the nearest inch), the following peak depths were noted: (1) 26" in 1899-1900 (2) 25" in 1885-1886 [in April, no less!] (3) 18" in 1892-1893 (4) 16" in 1904-1905 (5) 15" in 1907-1908 (6) 15" in 1903-1904 (7) 14" in 1893-1894 (8) 14" in 1894-1895 (9) 14" in 1909-1910 (10) 13" in 1911-1912 (11) 12" in 1910-1911 (12) 12" in 1908-1909 (13) 11" in 1900-1901 (14) 11" in 1898-1899 That's 12 years with 12"+ more peak depth, and 14 with 11" or more, in just 27 winters, compared to 15 & 18 in 77 winters with daily snow depth data - including two years with peak depths higher than any observed in the most recent 77 winters. Look at the 24 hour snowfalls - at least 8 double digit snowfalls [possible additional ones, since I didn't check], including 4 years with 12"+ [and a fifth at 11.8"] with one having observed more than 24" in a 24 hour period. This is clearly a higher frequency of big storms and deep snow depth than recent decades. Once again, you are not telling me anything I don't know. I have Detroits peak snow depth every winter. I have discussed many times over the years the rise, fall, & rise again of snow in the area. It does not matter what station you use (Detroit, Toledo, Chicago, etc) a well defined tanking of snow was seen from the 1930s-50s. The frequency of low snowfall at all stations was pitiful. And yes I would love a repeat of 1890s-1900s winters (with a few exceptions of course). It was an excellent era for cold and snowcover following the rollercoaster of cold/snowy and warm/snowless 1870s-80s winters. Snow depth is always an interesting stat because it helps corroborate the snowfall numbers, and usually matches well with the snowier and less snowy decades. The average yearly peak depth was highest in the 1900s & 2010s, and lowest in the 1940s: Avg Yearly Peak Snow Depth Per Decade: 1890s- 10” 1900s- 12” 1910s- 10” 1920s- 8” 1930s- 7” 1940s- 6” 1950s- 7” 1960s- 7” 1970s- 10” 1980s- 9” 1990s- 9” 2000s- 9” 2010s- 12” 2020s- 8” Frequency of 12+ depths 12 of 27 years 1885-86 thru 1911-12 8 of 86 years 1912-13 thru 1997-98 9 of 26 years 1998-99 thru 2023-24 Winters with peak depth of 12"+ 1885-86: 25" 1892-93: 18" 1893-94: 14" 1894-95: 14" 1899-00: 26" 1903-04: 15" 1904-05: 16" 1907-08: 15" 1908-09: 12" 1909-10: 14" 1910-11: 12" 1911-12: 13" 1926-27: 12" 1929-30: 14" 1951-52: 16" 1974-75: 19" 1977-78: 15" 1981-82: 18" 1984-85: 12" 1991-92: 12" 1998-99: 24" 2000-01: 12" 2004-05: 12" 2008-09: 14" 2010-11: 16" 2013-14: 20" 2014-15: 18" 2017-18: 14" 2020-21: 14" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 A memory popped up, reminding me that on this date last year we had that crazy snowstorm that came in like a wall of white, complete with thunder and lightning. Got me thinking that in these horrible mild winters, we really can get a few good bouts of blinding snow. Its one of the FEW consolations of two shitty winters in a row. Heavy snow with visib 1/4 mile or less: Jan 22, 2023 Jan 25, 2023 Mar 3, 2023 TSSN Mar 10, 2023 Nov 27, 2023 Jan 12, 2024 TSSN Feb 15, 2024 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King James Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Man this winter has been awesome 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocATL Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 The purpose of me posting a picture of an operational GFS run at hour 300+ wasn’t to troll. I fully understand it is completely unreliable. I meant to post it here concerning the extreme rarity with which we have seen west coast ridging and a southeast trough this winter. Truth is we’ve seen a western trough dominating several winters despite the ENSO state. Some have theorized this relates to the PDO. Thats all I was trying to say.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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