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Winter '23-'24 Piss and Moan/Banter Thread


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On 1/26/2024 at 5:48 PM, michsnowfreak said:

Detroit can do good in weak el ninos. Strong are the worst. Do you have Torontos top 20 least snowy?

Yes I agree. Some weak or moderate El Nino's can be great for us too. Sorry it took me a while to get back to this, had to total up all the winters since 1840 in Toronto lol. Here's our top 20 least snowiest winters. Note I did not use YYZ for the top 20. I used our Toronto station, from 1840-1994 and then used our North York station from 1994-present. 

The red highlighted are the more recent winters (i.e., since 2000). Our average snowfall every winter is around 50" (45" at YYZ). 

image.png.907a443ab034038375960a4f09189260.png

If I used YYZ then 2011-12, 2009-10, and 2006-07 would be in the top 5. But YYZ's measuring standards are questionable. 

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@mississaugasnow When I actually went back and tallied up all the winters in Toronto since 1840 I couldn't believe it. Almost wanted to rage lol. A lot of the winters in the 1800's were incredibly snowy and cold especially from 1864 to 1877. Toronto averaged 224cm (88") in this 13 year period lol. Out of those 13, 4 were >100". 

It's even more ridiculous when you extend the timeline. From 1843 to 1877, Toronto averaged 72" or 184cm in this 34 year period. The least snowiest winter in this entire stretch was 35". Fooking crazy. 

No other period in history has come remotely close to this. And I can't explain why. Maybe little ice age hangover? 

 

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53 minutes ago, Snowstorms said:

Yes I agree. Some weak or moderate El Nino's can be great for us too. Sorry it took me a while to get back to this, had to total up all the winters since 1840 in Toronto lol. Here's our top 20 least snowiest winters. Note I did not use YYZ for the top 20. I used our Toronto station, from 1840-1994 and then used our North York station from 1994-present. 

The red highlighted are the more recent winters (i.e., since 2000). Our average snowfall every winter is around 50" (45" at YYZ). 

image.png.907a443ab034038375960a4f09189260.png

If I used YYZ then 2011-12, 2009-10, and 2006-07 would be in the top 5. But YYZ's measuring standards are questionable. 

Found North York but incomplete data for January so far. 

Assuming its a bit higher compared to YYZ, North York is probably around 18" whereas YYZ is 16" 

Hamilton is at 10.2" on the year. 

That one storm in mid January has created a big gap across the GTA 

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2 minutes ago, mississaugasnow said:

Found North York but incomplete data for January so far. 

Assuming its a bit higher compared to YYZ, North York is probably around 18" whereas YYZ is 16" 

Hamilton is at 10.2" on the year. 

That one storm in mid January has created a big gap across the GTA 

And the next 10 days look snowless too. Unless things turn around late Feb and March, were currently on track for a top 5 winter. Your call still going strong haha. 

Below is the Toronto station (going back to 1840).

https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/monthly_data_e.html?hlyRange=1953-01-01|1969-05-31&dlyRange=1840-03-01|2017-04-27&mlyRange=1840-01-01|2006-12-01&StationID=5051&Prov=ON&urlExtension=_e.html&searchType=stnProx&optLimit=specDate&Month=1&Day=1&StartYear=1840&EndYear=2022&Year=1870&selRowPerPage=25&Line=21&txtRadius=25&optProxType=navLink&txtLatDecDeg=43.677222222222&txtLongDecDeg=-79.630555555556&timeframe=3

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11 minutes ago, Snowstorms said:

Ya, it will have to be a very snowy 4-6 week period. The biggest storm this year has only been 3" haha. To get anywhere near normal would mean multiple 4-8" storms. 

Unless the season comes out in the second half of February like SF did last night this season is getting close to being a dud. As a Bills fan I feel for the Lions this morning but I couldn't resist putting that reference in. 

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On 1/25/2024 at 2:05 PM, michsnowfreak said:

Any posters from southern Wisconsin, I'm curious. Does the MKE temperature sensor seem to be running warm? I notice that MKE is always warmer than everywhere to the north or south, often even warmer than chicago. 

Somebody needs to audit the DTW thermometer as well. I was just looking at winter to date figures, and noticed Detroit is only running 0.1F warmer than Flint. Detroit has almost always been 1.5 to 2.0F warmer than Flint. Suddenly, in the year of our lord 2024, that immutable reality has broken down and now they are about the same temperature. Exact opposite of what you would predict with the urban heat island effect and latitude difference. Weird.

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2 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

Somebody needs to audit the DTW thermometer as well. I was just looking at winter to date figures, and noticed Detroit is only running 0.1F warmer than Flint. Detroit has almost always been 1.5 to 2.0F warmer than Flint. Suddenly, in the year of our lord 2024, that immutable reality has broken down and now they are about the same temperature. Exact opposite of what you would predict with the urban heat island effect and latitude difference. Weird.

Hi, I'm the SWO at DTW and there is nothing wrong with our thermometer. Also DTW isn't in an urban heat island either, its actually on the edge of the metro, south and west of here is mostly farms, open land or woods.

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3 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Hi, I'm the SWO at DTW and there is nothing wrong with our thermometer. Also DTW isn't in an urban heat island either, its actually on the edge of the metro, south and west of here is mostly farms, open land or woods.

Huh? @michsnowfreakis always complaining about the heat island at DTW.

What have I been reading on here for decades?

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4 hours ago, Snowstorms said:

Yes I agree. Some weak or moderate El Nino's can be great for us too. Sorry it took me a while to get back to this, had to total up all the winters since 1840 in Toronto lol. Here's our top 20 least snowiest winters. Note I did not use YYZ for the top 20. I used our Toronto station, from 1840-1994 and then used our North York station from 1994-present. 

The red highlighted are the more recent winters (i.e., since 2000). Our average snowfall every winter is around 50" (45" at YYZ). 

image.png.907a443ab034038375960a4f09189260.png

If I used YYZ then 2011-12, 2009-10, and 2006-07 would be in the top 5. But YYZ's measuring standards are questionable. 

Thanks. Heres the comparison to Detroit for Toronto's 20 least snowy.

Most years were below avg at Detroit too, but 3 of them (2009-10, 1877-78, 1987-88) finished north of 40"+.

01.) 1952-53: 18.4” --- 16.6”
02.) 2009-10: 23.7” --- 43.7”
03.) 1932-33: 25.7” --- 25.8”
04.) 1936-37: 27.7” --- 12.9”
05.) 2011-12: 28.3” --- 26.0”
06.) 1982-83: 28.7” --- 20.0”
07.) 1905-06: 30.2” --- 29.4”
08.) 1877-78: 30.2” --- N/A*
09.) 1881-82: 30.4” --- 13.2”
10.) 1937-38: 30.9” --- 22.6”
11.) 1957-58: 31.3” --- 20.0”
12.) 2015-16: 31.8” --- 35.3”
13.) 1994-95: 31.9” --- 33.5”
14.) 2006-07: 32.8” --- 30.3”
15.) 1928-29: 33.7” --- 38.9”
16.) 1988-89: 34.3” --- 25.1”
17.) 1999-00: 34.8” --- 23.7”
18.) 1847-48: 34.9” --- N/A
19.) 1941-42: 35.3” --- 23.4”
20.) 1987-88: 36.4” --- 45.1”

*March & April data is M in 1877-78, but snowfall was above avg despite the mild temps that winter*

 

Oh and its so damn cool that Toronto has data since 1840. I do have a thick book that details winters of the 1830s-1880s at Detroit (a guy kept a journal) but not actual official stats.
 

 

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46 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

Huh? @michsnowfreakis always complaining about the heat island at DTW.

What have I been reading on here for decades?

Youve been here for decades? Interesting. And no, Im not always complaining about heat island at DTW. 

A handful of years ago it seemed that there was an issue with the DTW thermometer running warmer, and retired met Bill Deedler always complained of heat island, but Ive not seen an issue in a while. In fact, Ive always said that DTW is in a rural-ish area, and that in the '60s-80s the radiational cooling was off the chart (the days of less concrete at the airport). Its not so much a heat island today as it is a radiational cooling magnet it was in the 60s-70s (comparable to present-day Ann Arbor).

If you actually paid attention to the weather instead of just playing around all day on xmacis, it would not be a surprise that DTW is running similar to Flint. The big cold snap (the one that smashed records in the plains that you called run of the mill) had the core of the cold further south in MI than north. It was like 12 in Traverse City when it was -3 in Detroit. And the month has been full of stagnant weather, almost no sun, and significantly more rain and snow in Detroit than Flint.

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2 hours ago, Build Back Better Winters said:

Wasn’t that way this summer either, DTW was consistently cooler than DET this summer, I do think @TheClimateChangerhas a point.

With that being said, it looks directly on point with nearby unofficial temps right now.  Certainly doesn’t stand out like this:

 

 

193EAB04-7E54-44F1-9BF2-E7972E138210.jpeg

DET is not a first order station so it's not monitored/calibrated, plus it is quite a ways from DTW. Depending on the airmass and flow, sometimes DET will be warmer and sometimes not. Regardless the whole assertion that DTW runs cold is utterly ridiculous. It's either tcc trolling or more  grasping for warm straws that aren't there, simply because I asked a legitimate question about Milwaukee. DTW is still among the warmer temperatures every day on the DTX RTP round up.

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No snow for Christmas or New Years and a virtually snowless December,  combined with a winter hiatus with a 2-3 week torch during the dead of winter leaves me staring down the barrel of another F winter. This decade of the 2020s has featured some very lackluster winters. 

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On 1/28/2024 at 9:55 PM, Chicago Storm said:

detroit peeps, you alive and alright?

I thought being a lions fan was tough, guess I hadn't seen nothing yet. Then they choke for the world to see. Almost everyone in America was rooting for them, except for a few divisional fans. This one's gonna hurt for awhile. 

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7 minutes ago, Stevo6899 said:

I thought being a lions fan was tough, guess I hadn't seen nothing yet. Then they choke for the world to see. Almost everyone in America was rooting for them, except for a few divisional fans. This one's gonna hurt for awhile. 

Amazing season.  Yes that sucked but IMO I think KS would destroy our secondary in the SB (not the same KS team of week 1).  I think 49er are better built to stop them.   For me, this will only hurt if Detroit collapses going forward and doesn't grow from it which I don't see that happening.  Players actually want to come to Detroit (don't think I could ever say that in all my years)!!  Our OC is staying (could have been a HC).  I know there are no guarantees in the NFL but I believe there are actual good signs going forward.   That my 10 cents about the whole thing :lol:

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I thought being a lions fan was tough, guess I hadn't seen nothing yet. Then they choke for the world to see. Almost everyone in America was rooting for them, except for a few divisional fans. This one's gonna hurt for awhile. 

don’t worry, i’m a falcons fan.

it could be worse…
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9 hours ago, Lightning said:

Amazing season.  Yes that sucked but IMO I think KS would destroy our secondary in the SB (not the same KS team of week 1).  I think 49er are better built to stop them.   For me, this will only hurt if Detroit collapses going forward and doesn't grow from it which I don't see that happening.  Players actually want to come to Detroit (don't think I could ever say that in all my years)!!  Our OC is staying (could have been a HC).  I know there are no guarantees in the NFL but I believe there are actual good signs going forward.   That my 10 cents about the whole thing :lol:

See you twice next season. Should be good games. Otherwise, 4 wins apiece against the Bears/Vikings sounds like a plan.

 

Green_Bay_Packers_logo.svg.png

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