November 2023 General Discussion

[A-L-E-K]

30 minutes ago, Powerball said:

Some of us lucky few are blessed to live in a region with both.

in-n-out is bad tho

[Brian D]

0.25" of rain last night. 1.16" for the month so far. That's about half the monthly normal so doing good. 

[Chambana]

Up to 74 in the paign, record is definitely in play today. Really unbelievable. Curious to see if someone pops an 80.

 

and Culver’s is goated. 
 

Edit: up to 77 now. Wow

[michsnowfreak]

22 hours ago, mississaugasnow said:

Probably not palms but those along the lakeshore and up the east coast should be able to see at least a few days of frost free weather added per decade. Toronto downtown is already 6B or 7A growing zone. Theres still decent amount of green leaves right along the lake in Hamilton-Toronto. 

There is a HUGE difference between a few additional days of frost free weather and supporting palms. I mean I would hope that amidst their trolling these guys have enough common sense to realize what is a legitimate goal and what is not. On a somewhat related note. A guy down the street, bless his ignorance, planted a tropical hibiscus in June in front of his house. I told him it looks nice, but he should maybe have it in a pot. He said he thinks it's supposed to survive winter lol. Nwedless to say, it is already wilted and dead after a handful of frosts and freezes before winter has even begun.

 

Oh and Lakeshore living is always interesting because the leaves hang on so much longer in the fall and bloom so much later in the spring. 

[michsnowfreak]

22 hours ago, hardypalmguy said:

Great lakes area has already went up 1-2 growing zones since the year 2000.  The time is coming.

Wow, that's incredible. That would mean that the average annual minimum temperature has increased 10 to 20° since the year 2000.

Crazy how things like that work, seeing as how Detroit had 27 subzero days in the 1990s, 30 subzero days in the 2000s, and 50 subzero days in the 2010s. 

[Lightning]

8 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

There is a HUGE difference between a few additional days of frost free weather and supporting palms. I mean I would hope that amidst their trolling these guys have enough common sense to realize what is a legitimate goal and what is not. On a somewhat related note. A guy down the street, bless his ignorance, planted a tropical hibiscus in June in front of his house. I told him it looks nice, but he should maybe have it in a pot. He said he thinks it's supposed to survive winter lol. Nwedless to say, it is already wilted and dead after a handful of frosts and freezes before winter has even begun.

 

Oh and Lakeshore living is always interesting because the leaves hang on so much longer in the fall and bloom so much later in the spring. 

Every year I want an early hard freeze so I can be done with leaf clean up by Halloween.  Yet even if I get one; every year I need to do a final leaf clean up in Mid-November.  Hasn't changed my 30 years of property ownership in this area.  Always done before Thanksgiving and never done before Halloween.   Only thing a early hard freeze does is allow me to clean out the garden sooner.

[michsnowfreak]

6 hours ago, IWXwx said:

 

More like this

 

[TheClimateChanger]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:59 AM, A-L-E-K said:

happening quick now, all of us under 40 should live to see palm great lakes

 

23 hours ago, hardypalmguy said:

Great lakes area has already went up 1-2 growing zones since the year 2000.  The time is coming.

I predicted this decades ago.

[TheClimateChanger]

13 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

 

I predicted this decades ago.

So far, I'd say I am doing pretty well with the prediction. The mean low temperature at Cleveland for the first 4 years of the 2020s is 4F above zero. That is solidly Zone 7A, bordering Zone 7B.

Other climate locations in northeast Ohio: Akron, 4F; Mansfield, 1F; Youngstown, -1F. Nearby Erie, PA is at 5F.

[hardypalmguy]

1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

There is a HUGE difference between a few additional days of frost free weather and supporting palms. I mean I would hope that amidst their trolling these guys have enough common sense to realize what is a legitimate goal and what is not. On a somewhat related note. A guy down the street, bless his ignorance, planted a tropical hibiscus in June in front of his house. I told him it looks nice, but he should maybe have it in a pot. He said he thinks it's supposed to survive winter lol. Nwedless to say, it is already wilted and dead after a handful of frosts and freezes before winter has even begun.

 

Oh and Lakeshore living is always interesting because the leaves hang on so much longer in the fall and bloom so much later in the spring. 

It could be a hardy hibiscus.

[hardypalmguy]

47 minutes ago, Lightning said:

Every year I want an early hard freeze so I can be done with leaf clean up by Halloween.  Yet even if I get one; every year I need to do a final leaf clean up in Mid-November.  Hasn't changed my 30 years of property ownership in this area.  Always done before Thanksgiving and never done before Halloween.   Only thing a early hard freeze does is allow me to clean out the garden sooner.

I used to have leaves cleaned up by mid October in the 1980s/1990s.  Now it's mid to late November. 

[TheClimateChanger]

1 minute ago, hardypalmguy said:

I used to have leaves cleaned up by mid October in the 1980s/1990s.  Now it's mid to late November. 

Same here. Remember filling up all the pumpkin bags with all of the fallen leaves in the weeks prior to Halloween.

[weatherbo]

An inch of snow last night before the mix  began, currently sitting at 32.8 with rain, sleet, and fog.   Nice slug of precip moving in, should be mostly rain before cooler air and light le snow returns.  Typical early November weather, although this immediate area is now about 5-6" below in snowfall.

[hardypalmguy]

1 minute ago, TheClimateChanger said:

Same here. Remember filling up all the pumpkin bags with all of the fallen leaves in the weeks prior to Halloween.

Yes, the orange pumpkin garbage bags in the 80s/early 90s!  Now those would be impossible to use because trees are usually still mostly full all the way to Halloween!

[weatherbo]

Growing up in N Indiana, I can remember many times the leaves didn't peak until right around Halloween.

[Lightning]

9 minutes ago, hardypalmguy said:

I used to have leaves cleaned up by mid October in the 1980s/1990s.  Now it's mid to late November. 

Interesting the difference between our areas.

Hasn't change over here 1980s through 2023.  I would say 70s too but honestly I was under 9 and it wouldn't be sincere to say I remember those years exactly (80s the yard became my full responsibility).  I would always need to do the leaves soon after Halloween in the 80s.  Put them on a tarp and drag them down to the woods (now a golf course).  Soon after on Thanksgiving weekend we would hand the Christmas lights.  Pretty much the exact same here nowadays.

[mississaugasnow]

1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

There is a HUGE difference between a few additional days of frost free weather and supporting palms. I mean I would hope that amidst their trolling these guys have enough common sense to realize what is a legitimate goal and what is not. On a somewhat related note. A guy down the street, bless his ignorance, planted a tropical hibiscus in June in front of his house. I told him it looks nice, but he should maybe have it in a pot. He said he thinks it's supposed to survive winter lol. Nwedless to say, it is already wilted and dead after a handful of frosts and freezes before winter has even begun.

 

Oh and Lakeshore living is always interesting because the leaves hang on so much longer in the fall and bloom so much later in the spring. 

yep, not supporting palm trees but some mid Atlantic shrubs could start to take in the lakeshore areas. The trees are delayed but the frost dates are actually better compared to inland areas. Lakeshore living just doesnt get the extreme temps that inland living gets. 

I moved from the lakeshore and its wild the difference. 50F in April along the lake but 70F away. A cold May night that damages crops is 32F inland but 38F and no damage at the lakeshore. Even bigger differences in fall for overnights 

 

[michsnowfreak]

8 minutes ago, Lightning said:

Interesting the difference between our areas.

Hasn't change over here 1980s through 2023.  I would say 70s too but honestly I was under 9 and it wouldn't be sincere to say I remember those years exactly (80s the yard became my full responsibility).  I would always need to do the leaves soon after Halloween in the 80s.  Put them on a tarp and drag them down to the woods (now a golf course).  Soon after on Thanksgiving weekend we would hand the Christmas lights.  Pretty much the exact same here nowadays.

Even though a majority of the trees are bare now, there are still some clinging to leaves and let me tell you. Living on a tree lined street I've been fooled enough times. I just wait until they've all dropped to do any raking/blowing, otherwise it's pointless.

[mississaugasnow]

1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

There is a HUGE difference between a few additional days of frost free weather and supporting palms. I mean I would hope that amidst their trolling these guys have enough common sense to realize what is a legitimate goal and what is not. On a somewhat related note. A guy down the street, bless his ignorance, planted a tropical hibiscus in June in front of his house. I told him it looks nice, but he should maybe have it in a pot. He said he thinks it's supposed to survive winter lol. Nwedless to say, it is already wilted and dead after a handful of frosts and freezes before winter has even begun.

 

Oh and Lakeshore living is always interesting because the leaves hang on so much longer in the fall and bloom so much later in the spring. 

Toronto lakeside areas are also interesting since it's not just one thing that is causing a longer growing season. UHI is a big difference and probably adds at least a week or two alone to the growing season (Just guessing) add a slightly warmer climate which allows the lakes to warm a bit more and all of a sudden your growing season is 15-20 days longer compared to 1950

[Lightning]

12 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

Even though a majority of the trees are bare now, there are still some clinging to leaves and let me tell you. Living on a tree lined street I've been fooled enough times. I just wait until they've all dropped to do any raking/blowing, otherwise it's pointless.

My neighbors darn Norwegian Maple (100' off the lake we live on) always hangs onto it's leaves until mid-November while my two Norwegian Maples (up the hill a bit away from the lake ~600') lose them the first week of November.  Even with the low 20s last week.  Same results. I am hoping this weekend we can be done.

[michsnowfreak]

58 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

 

I predicted this decades ago.

You realize he is trolling? Michigan has NOT moved up 1-2 plant hardiness zones since 2000. LMAO. That would mean avg annual min temp has increase 10-20F.

Detroit average annual min temp per decade

1880s: -6
1890s: -6
1900s: -5
1910s: -4
1920s: -2
1930s: -3
1940s: -1
1950s: 2
1960s: -4
1970s: -9
1980s: -10
1990s: -4
2000s: -2
2010s: -5
 

 

[michsnowfreak]

2 minutes ago, Lightning said:

My neighbors darn Norwegian Maple (100' off the lake we live on) always hangs onto it's leaves until mid-November while my two Norwegian Maples (up the hill a bit away from the lake ~600') lose them the first week of November.  Even with the low 20s last week.  Same results. I am hoping this weekend we can be done.

BTW you realize cromartie was lying. There is no way he was done raking by mid-October in the 1990s and now not until late-November. I guess somehow magically his leaves fell 2-3 weeks earlier in the 1990s and now fall 2-3 weeks later than they do at a similar climate here in SE MI. 

[michsnowfreak]

26 minutes ago, mississaugasnow said:

yep, not supporting palm trees but some mid Atlantic shrubs could start to take in the lakeshore areas. The trees are delayed but the frost dates are actually better compared to inland areas. Lakeshore living just doesnt get the extreme temps that inland living gets. 

I moved from the lakeshore and its wild the difference. 50F in April along the lake but 70F away. A cold May night that damages crops is 32F inland but 38F and no damage at the lakeshore. Even bigger differences in fall for overnights 

 

Stuff like that is always possible. You can always see trees not native to a certain area growing if cared for properly. For instance, you see lots of white paper birch trees & balsam firs in the Detroit area even though their natural growth range is north. I have one of each myself. I just make sure they get water if its too hot/dry in summer. Likewise, trees/plants whos native areas are south of here can survive as long as they are covered in the winter (obviously this isnt feasible for big trees).

[Lightning]

1 minute ago, michsnowfreak said:

BTW you realize cromartie was lying. There is no way he was done raking by mid-October in the 1990s and now not until late-November. I guess somehow magically his leaves fell 2-3 weeks earlier in the 1990s and now fall 2-3 weeks later than they do at a similar climate here in SE MI. 

 

[mississaugasnow]

1 minute ago, michsnowfreak said:

Stuff like that is always possible. You can always see trees not native to a certain area growing if cared for properly. For instance, you see lots of white paper birch trees & balsam firs in the Detroit area even though their natural growth range is north. I have one of each myself. I just make sure they get water if its too hot/dry in summer. Likewise, trees/plants whos native areas are south of here can survive as long as they are covered in the winter (obviously this isnt feasible for big trees).

Yep, Toronto is a solid zone 6B and borderline 7A. I dont think the coldest nighttime lows have changed a lot but in Torontos case they are getting harder and harder to get since UHI is impacting it. So where Toronto used to see 0F on an good cold night its 5F 

Thats especially the case in summer now where overnight lows are much warmer than average. 

[michsnowfreak]

10 minutes ago, Lightning said:

 

You want to talk 1990s? The earliest spring greenup Ive ever seen, other than 2012, was 1998. I have a pic in front of this flowering bush my mom has in full flower on Easter Sunday, 4-4-98. Today, that bush usually blossoms late April or early May.

[michsnowfreak]

Oh and back to the weather...I will say it has been a very "Novembery" November so far this year. Only a week in, but looking back at recent years, we had several bouts of warm, Indian Summer weather (70s & sun) and also unusually early/heavy snow and cold. This year, November is really acting like November. 

[hardypalmguy]

1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

BTW you realize cromartie was lying. There is no way he was done raking by mid-October in the 1990s and now not until late-November. I guess somehow magically his leaves fell 2-3 weeks earlier in the 1990s and now fall 2-3 weeks later than they do at a similar climate here in SE MI. 

Dude back in the 80s/early 90s they sold orange plastic bags with faces on them that you stuffed with leaves to decorate for Halloween.  You couldn't use those now as there's no leaves on the ground until maybe the last week of October.  I do fall cleanup now Nov 10-20 every year as I still have l trees full of leaves.

[CheeselandSkies]

2 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

BTW you realize cromartie was lying. There is no way he was done raking by mid-October in the 1990s and now not until late-November. I guess somehow magically his leaves fell 2-3 weeks earlier in the 1990s and now fall 2-3 weeks later than they do at a similar climate here in SE MI. 

Until someone explained it to me, whenever I would see that name posted I would think of former NFL cornerback Dominique Rogers-Cromartie because that's the only place I'd previously seen/heard that name.

[King James]

Rumbles off in the distance. Feels stormy outside. Soaking it in. May be last chance for a long while