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Yesvember or November?


Go Kart Mozart
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2 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

You typically like to see the below:

1. Consistency across multiple runs and the pattern doesn't get "pushed back". (e.g., if the 240 hour pattern shows up mostly the same two days later at 192 hours, then you have consistency)

2. Cross-model support. This is when different model suites agree with eachother. If a great pattern is shown on the Euro/EPS, but the GFS/GEFS don't show it, then confidence is lower. But if all the models are showing it, then you'll be a lot more confident.

3. Is the pattern supported by other variables? If a great east coast pattern is coinciding with tropical forcing around the dateline or a retrograding Scandinavian ridge, then we will also be a bit more confident. We call that "Constructive interference".....it's helping the pattern be good. When those other factors might be at odds with the good modeled pattern, we might worry that it won't materialize as good as models show....we will sometimes say "destructive interference" is causing problems with the pattern.

Layman,

Yeah what he said ^.  Sorry I didn't back to you - it's officially shit month at work ( apparently. F!) 

The only thing I'd add is aspects like the trop. forcing and/or ridge placement that he's mentioned? - those are also changing in time.

The models can error with those different regional mass-field influences. Which would of course then introduce error in how the main ridge and troughs ( the pattern ) ultimately situate.  To help with some that, the ensemble means are used. They tend to be more reliable at outer time ranges, because by averaging all those solutions smooths out the individual aberration/oddities.  But even this method can be screwy at times -the transition seasons can see wholesale 'redraws' at times. 

It's the major reason for error in the outer mid range ( D5-7) and extended. More often times a consensus in the guidance that seems to routinely materialize right around D4.  In recent years, we've seen poor consensus among the models even 2 days ahead ... owing (probably) to the fast flow bias in the winter hemisphere's that's been observed over ~ 1.5 decades.

This go of it was more subtle ... The N Pac was transiently lowering heights northeast of Hawaii - and still are really...  This was creating more of a +PNAP ridge response downstream over W N/A Rockies in previous run cycles compared to 00z.  That lent to more trough over the OV.  "Constructive interference" - or perhaps less destructive works too.  But last night the heights were made to be flatter over the western continent... and on and so on.

 

 

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Thank you for the detailed replies, I appreciate it.  I have the thinnest of grasps on interpreting weather model data but find the evolutionary process across our hemisphere and the globe fascinating.  So many moving parts coalescing to a space and moment in time that's important to us, our region and our backyards - sometimes mundane, sometimes intense and dangerous but always interesting.

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2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

As far as any wintry threat, it's still far enough out to watch. The storm prior ended up warmer which may or may not have an effect to compress the flow a bit fore the next event. 

Your boy Margavage is on it !

https://x.com/meteomark/status/1720097507785744713?s=46&t=dhcbvkjmRcyBVQtDxJ3lRg

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29 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Megavaginage is an idiot. 

About 16 out of 20 of those solutions produce little or no significant impacts across the locations he outlined!!!  He also stated he sees a signal during a time frame that has been discussed for more than a week by many others.

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7 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Looks rather mundane overall after cold shot around  Veterans Day. EPS has a GOAK trough, but some signs of an Aleutian low perhaps trying to build at the tail end of the run. That wouldn’t be a bad thing heading into late Monday and December. 

Already backing off on the cold, likely these were the coldest anomalies nationwide of the winter season

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5 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

And ya know what…that’s just fine.  No need for frigid cold in November anyway.  Let the second half of December cool down.  That’s six weeks away…it can be mild all it wants for now. 

Wolfie I love you but it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself, ha.

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And ya know what…that’s just fine.  No need for frigid cold in November anyway.  Let the second half of December cool down.  That’s six weeks away…it can be mild all it wants for now. 
IDK, I like cold around Tday as it feels like a preview to the upcoming winter. Crunchy snow and 30s on TDay is preferred

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

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14 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Wolfie I love you but it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself, ha.

Actually if I could order what I would want…I’d like 40 or so for a high on T Giving, but we already have it warm for the holiday in 3 weeks… so I’ll gladly sacrifice that for a colder second half of December when we will be much closer to our wheelhouse for winter weather….maybe that’s the better way to put it. No convincing, just bartering for something better later lol. 

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3 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

Still a signal for some potential late next week....not favored, but worth keeping an eye on.

 

Nov2_12zEPS168.png

It's the perils of progressive patterns.  Error is much higher. 

Here's the deal, ...  the GEFs PNA index end ups rising from -.5 to +.5 between now and Nov 15, doing so with surprisingly limited spread for both the time of year but just considering going all the way through week 2 in general.

image.png.8f9b4b3a2b1fdfdbc752feaf2c61b89c.png

There's no "spike" there...just a gradual ascent.    A pulse at some point along space and time signals enhanced restoring system potential.  However, NJ model low and/or flat frontal wave type events take place beneath the large mass field perturbation. The restoring is triggered within smaller nested domain spaces below those larger scales.  The PNA is so massive a domain space, a NJM wave eject, out of the eastern limb, could fit along a more gradual sloped ascent like that.  .  

To be fair.  The WPO/NPAC/EPO ... are sending warm signals. However, the +PNA/ +EPO correlation, particularly post  -EPO bursts ( like last week) would tend to be colder look of N/A as the +PNA forces NW flow through the NW Territory - the negative EPO damage was already done. Which we are seeing. Check...

So..it's not clear what the upstream N arc of the Pac has in mind or if may overwhelm.  I think what we are seeing in the guidance is sensy 'giga' movement because of that.

 

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I am seeing a lot of storms on the models hitting the Pacific Northwest and then tracking west to east near the Canadian border. I am seeing some talk about potential for an early winter storm threat, but with that storm track I think it’s more likely we will be south and east of the low. That’s not a snowy storm track in the heart of winter, never mind in November. That is why I do not agree that we will have a snow threat in eastern mass over the next couple of weeks. I believe we will get more rain instead. 

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