NNE Cold Season Thread 2023/2024

[J.Spin]

Of the 11 winter storms we’re recorded at our site so far this season, 3 have delivered more than a half inch of liquid equivalent here at our site in the Winooski Valley, and they’ve had a notable upward trend in L.E. The November 21^st storm brought 0.72” of L.E., the November 26^th storm brought 1.14” of L.E., and this most recent storm that began on December 3^rd brought more than 1.40” of L.E., with snowfall continuing through the overnight period. These storms have really helped to build the mountain snowpack, and the snow depth at the Mt. Mansfield Stake is now more than a foot above average.

Bolton Valley was reporting another 14” of snow in 24 hours, and I popped up to the mountain yesterday afternoon to check it out. Elevation has had quite an impact on the snow from this most recent storm, and the snow depth profile coming up out of the Winooski Valley is quite extreme. There’s really no snow aside from leftover piles, all the way up above 1,000’, and then the depth begins to ramp up. Here’s the snow depth profile I found on yesterday’s ski tour:

340’: 0”

500’: 0”

1,000’: 0”

1,200’: T-2”

1,500’: 6-8”

2,000’: 16-20”

2,500’: 20-24”

3,000’: 24-28”

It was more challenging to get depth readings in those upper elevations since the pack is getting pretty deep and there are a lot of different layers with varying consistencies, but that general trend I’ve seen of almost an inch of depth increase per 100’ of elevation gain seems to generally be holding. The depths I was getting at 3,000’ also seem generally in line with the current reading at the Mt. Mansfield Stake of 33” at 3,700’.

I arrived up in the Village in the early afternoon to a maelstrom of huge flakes coming down in association with the back side of the storm system, so the mountain continued to tack on more to the snow totals. Fat skis were unquestionably the play for today. The accumulations from this storm definitely came in denser than the previous one, and while fats were of course great for stability, they were also really nice for planing on lower angle slopes and getting additional turns out of that snow. Even though you were only sinking maybe 6 to 10 inches into the powder because of the density, it was still slow going if the slope angle got too low. Steep slopes indeed offered the best turns, and the base is so dense and deep that even on those pitches there’s not much to worry about in terms of coverage on the upper mountain.

[J.Spin]

I was busy through most of the afternoon, but still wanted to get out to the mountain today to check out the additional snow that fell on the back side of our most recent system. As the temperatures dropped yesterday, the density of the snowfall fell to 10% H2O by the afternoon, and finally down into the 3-4% H2O range overnight. Bolton Valley was reporting another 5 inches of accumulation as of this morning, and that drier snow atop the substantial amounts of denser snow from the earlier part of the storm would likely set up some excellent turns.

Since I was starting my tour around dusk, I fired up my headlamp because I knew I’d need it on the descent. What amazed me this evening was the number of people who were out touring by headlamp as well. I knew that folks got out for Wilderness tours after dark because I’d sometimes see them on their way up when I’d be finishing a late descent, but I had no idea just how substantial the numbers were. During the course of my relatively short tour this evening I saw at least a couple dozen skiers out there for headlamp touring, and most of them were actually ascending or just starting out at the parking area. Indeed, the Village parking lot was teeming with skiers, more than I’ll typically even see for a morning session. I guess that part of local ski culture is clearly alive and well. And I can’t blame folks for getting after it this evening, it was dead calm with temperatures in the 20s F with new dry powder atop a substantial base. I can remember a couple decades ago when folks would need to set up these elaborate, heavy battery packs to run their powerful halogen lamps to have enough light for skiing at night, and that all seems pretty irrelevant now with modern LED headlamps. My little LED headlamp was more than powerful to enough to provide light for me to ski, even on its lowest setting. I did use the brightest setting on the descent since I figured I might as well, and it was potent.

In terms of the snow, with settling I generally found 2 to 4 inches of the new drier snow in the 2,000’ to 2,500’ elevation range. In some spots it was easier to distinguish the demarcation between this drier snow and the denser snow below as I probed around, but at higher elevations where even the base snow was drier, it became more and more difficult to separate the new snow from the old. In any event, the quality of the skiing took a nice notch upwards with the addition of the new powder. I’m sure the earlier snow dried out a bit as well, but with this new snow on top, turns were much silkier than yesterday, and lower angle terrain was much more in play and enjoyable since you were gliding through fluff instead of sinking into the denser stuff. There’s excellent midwinter skiing to be had out there right now in the Northern Greens, whether you go during the day… or at night.

[powderfreak]

Caked.

[Lava Rock]

pretty legit cold air for early dec. 25.6F

[tunafish]

y'all take amazing photos.  that is all.

[Froude]

6 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Caked.

Frameable.

[alex]

[borderwx]

First 0F this morning.

Hands didn’t come out of the pockets for awhile this morning




.

[J.Spin]

About an hour ago I received a text alert that we’d been put under a Winter Storm Watch, so clearly the BTV NWS is seeing something at this lead time that has them concerned about the potential snowfall with this upcoming system. Current maps have been added below:

[bwt3650]

Some more pics from today..as has been mentioned, the scenery right now is incredible. Almost as good as the early season skiing. I wish I had the talent to photograph like pf and jspin, because there’s some great shots to be had…









.

[MRVexpat]

11 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

Some more pics from today..as has been mentioned, the scenery right now is incredible. Almost as good as the early season skiing. I wish I had the talent to photograph like pf and jspin, because there’s some great shots to be had…









.

Agreed

 

 

[tamarack]

First pic - elastic snow?
Second - Toolshed hiding behind snow-loaded apple trees.

[J.Spin]

The Winter Storm Watch here has been converted to a Winter Storm Warning, and the BTV NWS forecast discussion suggests totals topping out in the 10-20” range for the Central/Northern Greens. The latest maps are posted below.

Area Forecast Discussion

National Weather Service Burlington VT

349 PM EST Sat Dec 9 2023

.SHORT TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY NIGHT/... As of 342 PM EST Saturday...Upgraded winter storm watch to warning acrs most of VT, where confidence is highest for warning criteria snowfall. Very little change has occurred with our storm total snowfall thinking localized 10 to 20 inches central/northern Green Mtns of VT.

[Ginx snewx]

2 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

The Winter Storm Watch here has been converted to a Winter Storm Warning, and the BTV NWS forecast discussion suggests totals topping out in the 10-20” range for the Central/Northern Greens. The latest maps are posted below.

Area Forecast Discussion

National Weather Service Burlington VT

349 PM EST Sat Dec 9 2023

.SHORT TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY NIGHT/... As of 342 PM EST Saturday...Upgraded winter storm watch to warning acrs most of VT, where confidence is highest for warning criteria snowfall. Very little change has occurred with our storm total snowfall thinking localized 10 to 20 inches central/northern Green Mtns of VT.

Days of upslope

[bwt3650]

Days of upslope

You called the last one so keep it coming.


.

[J.Spin]

5 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Days of upslope

 

3 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

You called the last one so keep it coming.

The BTV NWS forecast discussion mentions the potential for a few inches of upslope for Monday night on the back end of this upcoming storm. The 3K NAM has it going through about midnight before a bit of a short break, and then potentially some lake moisture visiting the area on Tuesday. After that, the next potential systems in the pipe are a polar front on Wednesday, and then a similar one on Friday night/Saturday. We’ll have to see how this upcoming larger system plays out of course, but 3 to 4 systems affecting the area over the course of roughly the next week seems like a good Northern Greens style regime to potentially keep the snow surfaces refreshed. The BTV NWS forecast discussion also noted that the northern/central areas were removed from the flood watch due to cooler thermal profiles, so that’s good.

[Ginx snewx]

[J.Spin]

4 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

I see that Ginx already passed along the updated BTV NWS Storm Total Snowfall Forecast map, and I’ve added the updated alerts map below. In the BTV NWS forecast discussion they mentioned that most remaining areas with Winter Storm Watches were converted to Winter Storm Warnings, as the map indicates.

Checking out some of the local point forecasts, I see that down here in the valley our snowfall projection is in the 8-16” range through tomorrow night, and the nearby mountain forecasts are topping out around 24”. There’s none of that next tier accumulations shading showing up along the spine, but the current Storm Total Snowfall Forecast map only goes out through 7 PM tomorrow.

[mcglups]

what an amazing storm as it comes to be! that 'red' shading is appearing here.

[J.Spin]

1 hour ago, mcglups said:

what an amazing storm as it comes to be! that 'red' shading is appearing here.

Thanks for passing that along. With touches of that 18-24” shading along the spine of the Northern Greens, that seems to jive fairly well with the BTV NWS high elevation point forecasts I’m seeing. Since that map is out through Wednesday morning, it should certainly be including any back side of accumulations from the system.

[J.Spin]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:02 PM, bwt3650 said:

Almost whole mountain open today; though it’s very soft. It’s been an incredible start.

It’s a busy weekend for me and I wasn’t certain if I was going to get out for turns, especially since I was unsure if surfaces were going to be soft with temperatures in the 30s F, but your comments helped tip the balance. If we’ve had a notable thaw-freeze, then 30s F isn’t really going to cut it to soften things up, but the snow hasn’t really cycled above freezing for a while – it’s already in such good shape that it doesn’t need to soften. With the next storm moving in today, Saturday also seemed like the better day to hit the slopes, so that helped motivate us to get out while the weather was relatively stable.

My wife and I headed up in the midafternoon period, and we were a bit leery about parking because the snow report indicated that Bolton had already filled their upper lots and people were parking down at Timberline. We were late enough that plenty of spots were opening up though as others finished their day and headed home.

The resort is definitely humming as they start to move to every day operation this week. They had all the lifts going except Timberline, where I don’t think they’ve made much snow yet, and the natural depths down at 1,500’ aren’t quite there to support lift-served traffic. Patrol has opened up just about everything else though – low angle, moderate angle, steeps, trees, people are skiing it all. Some steep, and even moderate natural snow terrain requires various levels of negotiation around the usual patches depending on whether you’re using rock skis or not, but you really can ski just about anything.

The snow quality we encountered was fantastic, soft and carvable but not sticky at all, and there’s no ice anywhere to speak of because of the huge resurfacing we got from those recent storms. The resort has all of Wilderness open with zero grooming, so they’re just letting people have at it as nature intended. That means that there’s plenty of uneven terrain and occasional water bars to negotiate, but the snow quality is so good that it’s simple to deal with any obstacles you encounter.

My son was up with a bunch of friends from UVM, so while we were waiting to meet up with them at the bottom of Wilderness, I walked around the Village a bit and grabbed some additional photos. It’s been a few days since the last storm, but there’s tons of snow all over the place up there that’s piled up and sticking to things. The snowpack is certainly in good shape for early December, and we’ll soon see what this next storm does for the slopes.

[EMontpelierWhiteout]

2 hours ago, J.Spin said:

It’s a busy weekend for me and I wasn’t certain if I was going to get out for turns, especially since I was unsure if surfaces were going to be soft with temperatures in the 30s F, but your comments helped tip the balance. If we’ve had a notable thaw-freeze, then 30s F isn’t really going to cut it to soften things up, but the snow hasn’t really cycled above freezing for a while – it’s already in such good shape that it doesn’t need to soften. With the next storm moving in today, Saturday also seemed like the better day to hit the slopes, so that helped motivate us to get out while the weather was relatively stable.

My wife and I headed up in the midafternoon period, and we were a bit leery about parking because the snow report indicated that Bolton had already filled their upper lots and people were parking down at Timberline. We were late enough that plenty of spots were opening up though as others finished their day and headed home.

The resort is definitely humming as they start to move to every day operation this week. They had all the lifts going except Timberline, where I don’t think they’ve made much snow yet, and the natural depths down at 1,500’ aren’t quite there to support lift-served traffic. Patrol has opened up just about everything else though – low angle, moderate angle, steeps, trees, people are skiing it all. Some steep, and even moderate natural snow terrain requires various levels of negotiation around the usual patches depending on whether you’re using rock skis or not, but you really can ski just about anything.

The snow quality we encountered was fantastic, soft and carvable but not sticky at all, and there’s no ice anywhere to speak of because of the huge resurfacing we got from those recent storms. The resort has all of Wilderness open with zero grooming, so they’re just letting people have at it as nature intended. That means that there’s plenty of uneven terrain and occasional water bars to negotiate, but the snow quality is so good that it’s simple to deal with any obstacles you encounter.

My son was up with a bunch of friends from UVM, so while we were waiting to meet up with them at the bottom of Wilderness, I walked around the Village a bit and grabbed some additional photos. It’s been a few days since the last storm, but there’s tons of snow all over the place up there that’s piled up and sticking to things. The snowpack is certainly in good shape for early December, and we’ll soon see what this next storm does for the slopes.

J. Spin, have really appreciated your detailed assessment of the snowpack per elevation this season.  Very informative for planning getting out to ski.   Interesting and encouraging early season.  Seems we will luck out again especially at summits with this one.  Temps never soared today in East Montpelier, have topped out in low 40s. Changeover appears ahead of schedule as already seeing some frozen returns in high peaks of the ADKs.

[backedgeapproaching]

Love when BTV puts these elevation graphics out. Cool stuff.

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Love when BTV puts these elevation graphics out. Cool stuff.

That is a cool graphic. 

[borderwx]

Woke up to 5”, another 3” through the daylight hours, still blowing around, 1” since I finished getting the mailbox reattached to the post

3rd Monday in a row of cleaning the blueberry bushes, the white birch are may need a break

Wasn’t planning on skiing the steepest, rockiest trails at J today, but it happened, and it was delightful. Lower mountain water bars were the biggest hazard


.

[powderfreak]

Still coming down this evening at the ski area.  Don't dare drop anymore obs in the main thread, lol.  Getting dire outside of our little pocket in VT it seems.

[powderfreak]

Nice quiet Monday on the mountain during a snowy day.

Empty chairs coming up at 11am during a storm.  Love Mondays.

[backedgeapproaching]

59 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Still coming down this evening at the ski area.  Don't dare drop anymore obs in the main thread, lol.  Getting dire outside of our little pocket in VT it seems.

You have just about used up your main thread photo quota PF before the first 1" falls in SNE.. 

Lower than expected totals here just like pretty everywhere in VT this last event.  2.5" sticky wet snow. Think I only have like 12-13" this season. Couple razor thin events where it was just too warm on west slopes.  Been pretty decent early on at Stratton/Bromley, few good days have been had out there at both so far, east slopes and elevated have done relatively well here. Tight cutoff to the south for season totals as I think Mitch hasn't had too much so far. 

 

[powderfreak]

13 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

You have just about used up your main thread photo quota PF before the first 1" falls in SNE.. 

Lower than expected totals here just like pretty everywhere in VT this last event.  2.5" sticky wet snow. Think I only have like 12-13" this season. Couple razor thin events where it was just too warm on west slopes.  Been pretty decent early on at Stratton/Bromley, few good days have been had out there at both so far, east slopes and elevated have done relatively well here. Tight cutoff to the south for season totals as I think Mitch hasn't had too much so far. 

 

Yeah, been lucky up here.  Even though here under 1000ft has been tough at times relative to the local higher terrain, still up to 24” on the season.  And all of it has been impactful it seems, which has added to the overall “feel”.

Without even looking at amounts, one can pick up the seasonal zone… interior central-northern Vermont.  Yellow to red is essentially 20-50” on the season.  

The Woodford and Greensboro sites already 40+ inches on the year, on December 11. 

[mreaves]

17 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah, been lucky up here.  Even though here under 1000ft has been tough at times relative to the local higher terrain, still up to 24” on the season.  And all of it has been impactful it seems, which has added to the overall “feel”.

Without even looking at amounts, one can pick up the seasonal zone… interior central-northern Vermont.  Yellow to red is essentially 20-50” on the season.  

The Woodford and Greensboro sites already 40+ inches on the year, on December 11. 

I don’t think you meant Woodford?  Anyway, I’m at 24” too. We’ve had snow cover since late November and it’s been 3 Mondays in a row that we have gotten birch benders. On the downside, it hasn’t been all that cold so the pack always seems close to ripeness. Water is flowing in the woods and I haven’t used my snowblower because all the snow has been way to waterlogged.