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October Long Range


Weather Will
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It seems to switch back to that La Nina base-state just as we were entering the +correlation time for the Winter (Oct is like 52% correlated, Nov 60%). It just seems to be all around acting as a Weak El Nino event, and I think we could see El Nino patterns in the Winter, but they may be more short lived, and always in a mode of change. If we see 3-4 months of +PNA or GOA low like other El Nino's it would surprise me... Something like the MJO might rise up to be a strong driver this Winter, with lack of other strong connectors. We still favor a +PNA general tendency but it's sheared out a little too much in a fast flow of constant change. 

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None of the seasonal models have shown a cold November or December but rather a transition to an eastern trough as we get into January.  Could we thread the needle with a cold enough storm to bring some snow for the holidays, sure....but way too soon to figure that out yet.

WB 0Z EPS teleconnections don't scream torch or bitter cold pattern the next 2 weeks.

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5 hours ago, Weather Will said:

WB latest GEFS extended and EPS weeklies do forecast snow in our cold source regions the next month, which can't hurt our prospects for some cold in December.

 

 4 out of the last 6 years there has been record North America  snow cover in December, with several of those winters showing indications of a weaker PV demonstrated by significant periods of a negative AO. A few Decembers during this period had a cold weather in the East. However, the majority lost the record snow cover and it turned warmer after mid to late December.  Not sure if any one signal, or long range model has any accuracy in this day and age. Even the periods with a deeply negative AO , a great indicator of snow potential , produced very little, if any snowfall here. Seems possible that a perfect Pacific pattern may be needed to produce snowfall in the Mid Atlantic region.       

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2 hours ago, frd said:

 4 out of the last 6 years there has been record North America  snow cover in December, with several of those winters showing indications of a weaker PV demonstrated by significant periods of a negative AO. A few Decembers during this period had a cold weather in the East. However, the majority lost the record snow cover and it turned warmer after mid to late December.  Not sure if any one signal, or long range model has any accuracy in this day and age. Even the periods with a deeply negative AO , a great indicator of snow potential , produced very little, if any snowfall here. Seems possible that a perfect Pacific pattern may be needed to produce snowfall in the Mid Atlantic region.       

Makes sense. We get flooded with Pacific Puke on a routine basis anymore. No reason to think we'll ever see a big snow year again in these parts outside of another Jan 2016 that skews the mean.

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I wonder if we'll get late November snow this year. It's been a persistent pattern of a trough over the EC 75% of the time since the Spring, so that may carry. I don't really agree with everyone saying warm November and December. Why are Nino's warm in December? They don't know. It just lack of a big dataset, plus La Nina's don't follow the opposite route. I would say 70% chance it's cooler (<+2F) in late Nov and December just carrying forward the conditions of this year. The pattern is quick, but it was a "cooler Summer", "on-time Fall" "on-time Spring", for the most part.. 4-5 days of really warm this week, but it's still -EPO and somewhat +PNA in the pacific (more rogue SE ridge happening than index correlated).

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I was actually going to mention in the main thread that I see a bit of a signal for a Northeast snowstorm in mid-November. But I'm not really confident in it. It would be during the transition from the warm spell to a cooler spell that should set up after 11/15 or so.

The SE ridging is how I think the -PDO aspect will play out as it weakens from super negative to weakly or moderately negative. Often the super -PDO is just a Western trough (1988 as an example), but the weaker ones are SE ridging. That's been my premise for a while. 

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11 minutes ago, Ji said:

lol euro with a snowstorm for Western MD and parts of PA next week

The Euro is trending in the right direction! :) - Slowly the storm formation from the diving energy is aligning better! A few more improvements and it will be more interesting to watch.. BUT, I do not believe any of it! :D

 

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On 10/24/2023 at 3:58 PM, Stormchaserchuck1 said:

Definitely a warm signal the 2nd week of November. 

https://ibb.co/NZvcS56

Models have been busting on warmer patterns like crazy. Seen quite a few major adjustments in the last few months. Since the El Nino began this year, LR model accuracy went down like 40%, especially leading to the more extended period..

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38 minutes ago, Stormchaserchuck1 said:

Models have been busting on warmer patterns like crazy. Seen quite a few major adjustments in the last few months. Since the El Nino began this year, LR model accuracy went down like 40%, especially leading to the more extended period..

Meaning they bust too warm and it ends up colder, or they underestimate the warmth?

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29 minutes ago, Terpeast said:

Meaning they bust too warm and it ends up colder, or they underestimate the warmth?

They just flip-out the entire pattern completely. I've seen this especially with Aleutian High's, they will show +300dm on the ensemble mean then the next day it's +50dm, some -epo's, some +pna's, but not wanting to organize in the -PNA region. I've been watching models to 15-day for 5 straight years, and it's never varied so much as this year, and since the El Nino started getting strong. I'm not saying it's going to produce more cold, just that these usually reliable time indicators are verifying much lower. 

I was getting a +200dm -PNA signal and -200dm +NAO for the 2nd week of Nov, now it's "sheared out" to almost nothing. Just been interesting to watch a random model error consistently happen. (They used to jump from 100dm to 80dm max, now it's like 100dm to 20-40dm). 

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