New England Met Autumn 2023 Banter

[Ginx snewx]

Tear down 1000s of acres of forest to put up solar panels that are useless in 20 years. Push EVS despite having a bigger end carbon footprint and destructive mining. 65% of global warming is from UHI. Yea let's put up more concrete and asphalt and tear down those ski areas. This is what happens when you let the do goodies make decisions without foresight and future implications. CC warriors are the worst.

[Brewbeer]

New England hasn't really been "negatively" affected by AGW all that much yet, but that doesn't hold equally everywhere.

Solar panels belong on buildings, not in the woods or fields. The notion that panels are junk in 20 years just isn't true, they are just de-rated a bit, just like any other technology that has been operating for 20 years. Electric cars are heavy because battery and charging technology are still at the beginning stages of serious tech development.  

We have a long way to go, but long journeys begin with first steps. There are unrealistic expectations on either side.  Patience and understanding will be needed.

I don't think Tip is an "alarmist", he's merely point to the data, which is substantial, and (IMO) conclusive. 

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, Brewbeer said:

New England hasn't really been "negatively" affected by AGW all that much yet, but that doesn't hold equally everywhere.

Solar panels belong on buildings, not in the woods or fields. The notion that panels are junk in 20 years just isn't true, they are just de-rated a bit, just like any other technology that has been operating for 20 years. Electric cars are heavy because battery and charging technology are still at the beginning stages of serious tech development.  

We have a long way to go, but long journeys begin with first steps. There are unrealistic expectations on either side.  Patience and understanding will be needed.

I don't think Tip is an "alarmist", he's merely point to the data, which is substantial, and conclusive. 

Look at Europe and it's mega problems due to the rush to green. Kill some more marine animals for wind power so we can throw away the wind mills in landfills. And on and on. I am all for cleaner energy done in stages and with forethought. Climate scams galore.

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, Brewbeer said:

New England hasn't really been "negatively" affected by AGW all that much yet, but that doesn't hold equally everywhere.

Solar panels belong on buildings, not in the woods or fields. The notion that panels are junk in 20 years just isn't true, they are just de-rated a bit, just like any other technology that has been operating for 20 years. Electric cars are heavy because battery and charging technology are still at the beginning stages of serious tech development.  

We have a long way to go, but long journeys begin with first steps. There are unrealistic expectations on either side.  Patience and understanding will be needed.

I don't think Tip is an "alarmist", he's merely point to the data, which is substantial, and conclusive. 

Yup, with snowmaking it’s the baby steps of buying Low-E, tower, and efficient guns.  Many places have completely turned over their fleets.  It’s also economical… initial investment heavy but then if you are using 40% less energy (saves 40% $$ too) than the old ground based air hogs.  You need to make snow at slightly colder wet bulbs but it’s a cleaner step.  Maybe in another 15 years we are cutting another 25% off.

The notion of killing industries outright is likely not the answer either, just baby steps.  Not grounding all airplanes and cruises, but maybe they develop better technologies as well… and it’s usually economical, use less energy/fuel and it costs less.

Thats why many have mini splits now and heat pumps, etc.

[Ginx snewx]

8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yup, with snowmaking it’s the baby steps of buying Low-E, tower, and efficient guns.  Many places have completely turned over their fleets.  It’s also economical… initial investment heavy but then if you are using 40% less energy (saves 40% $$ too) than the old ground based air hogs.  Maybe in another 15 years we are cutting another 25% off.

The notion of killing industries outright is likely not the answer either, just baby steps.  Not grounding all airplanes and cruises, but maybe they develop better technologies as well… and it’s usually economical, use less energy/fuel and it costs less.

Thats why many have mini splits now and heat pumps, etc.

Exactly, being smart not reactive and alarming. Forky likes classical music, we should shut down all the concert hall’s because of carbon impacts due to all the energy expenditures, jet travel by performers, energy used by patrons. See how dumb this can get….

[Typhoon Tip]

2 hours ago, WinterWolf said:

So John..with all due respect, maybe you should not turn on your lights, or drive your car, or use your cell phone, or run your heat or AC, or cook your food, or use your laptop…etc etc…cuz it’s all a carbon footprint.  
 

So you believe it’s a crisis, and I certainly don’t. So we’ll just agree to disagree I guess.    Nothing personal whatsoever.  I like you, and find you very intelligent. But I just disagree on that whole idea whatsoever.  But it’s all good. 

Actually ...you're kinda right (bold).   But in terms of orders of magnitude, ideally, we curb the biggest offender industries first.

We'll be able to power iphones and lights.  Cars are a problem.

All this shit we're dealing with when it comes to the climate stuff began within 50 years of the Industrial Revolution and has been mathematically shown to be true.   You can disagree with that fact - good luck.  I won't stop anyone from their beliefs.  

We are over a tenability threshold anyway - so it's kind of moot point. People can play the not in my lifetimes card all they want, the species' continuity loses the hand.  There are 8 billion people on the planet. If 90 some% of them understood the reality and curbed the way they sequester energy ( other than burning fossil fuels or any other means that released CO2, methane etc..), the remaining 10% is still plenty enough to make it too late; our species and countless others have the population correction.

We are in a race against (time, negligence, disrespect of the issue)/3 = "X"...  Climate change is apparently moving faster than the rate of change in X.   That means ... CC wins that race.

Humanity made the Faustian deal with technology in 1850, and now we are trapped.  We are going to have to innovate cures for the crisis that will move faster than the crisis. 

 ... or the crisis wins.

 

[radarman]

How bout if you install a multi million dollar wind turbine that powers the lifts and the water pumps?  Are we good in that case?  Asking for a friend

[HoarfrostHubb]

6 minutes ago, radarman said:

How bout if you install a multi million dollar wind turbine that powers the lifts and the water pumps?  Are we good in that case?  Asking for a friend

Only if it doesn’t fall apart…. Oopsie.  

[Typhoon Tip]

2 hours ago, tamarack said:

How about the carbon footprint of golf in the US.  (If you've done that calculation in the golf thread, which I never peruse, please let me know.)

The the bigger point ( not seen by too many in society ) is that just but everything inside the industrial bubble can ultimately be traced to pernicious advance on the natural order - 250 years into this dependency ... the "tumors" are starting to become noticeable.  

Those aren't my calculations by the way. 

[forkyfork]

fake snow isn't even snow. it's micro sleet

[Typhoon Tip]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

It’s definitely something the industry wrestles with.  More and more money goes into low-e guns, fan guns and other lower energy infrastructure.

I’m not going to sit here and tell anyone it’s the best way to do things, but humans do a lot of things that aren’t ideal.  The energy usage is the nut to crack… the water just melts and goes back into the same reservoir it came out of.  Plus it rains enough in winter to refill it on the go. 

One can really go down the rabbit hole of golf courses too.

The pros of snowmaking are that it literally drives whole economies in many places of the world that would have zero economy too.  The downstream effect of no snowmaking would close the industry and be akin to manufacturing cities and towns when the plants shut down.

Its definitely not an easy discussion.

Like I said ... if we can load the slopes with artificially produced snow without adding to the carbon footprint...  go nuts man

[BrianW]

I lived in Burlington VT in the late 90s early 2000s and worked at Smugglers Notch one winter. I remember seeing like 5 or 6 diesel powered air compressors running to make snow. The operations guy said Green Mountain power couldn't deliver enough electricity to run the compressors. 

Those compressors were belching out thick diesel exhaust and the amount of energy the ops guys told me was consumed to blow snow was absurd. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

3 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

fake snow isn't even snow. it's micro sleet

Who cares?  You can ski on it just fine.  
 

it could be plastic pellets for all I care.   

[psv88]

1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

Yea screw all the winter economies to reduce carbon so joe blow doesn't raise his temp 1.5 degrees on the low temp. You CC alarmists are the absolute worst decision makers on the planet. Just pure hype. Planet is warming, BFD 

Maybe it’s not a big deal to you in bumble fuck Connecticut, but to billions of people it is a big deal.
 

Marine heatwaves are decimating marine ecosystems world wide.

Raging fires, droughts and floods which kill thousands. 

Diseases carried by ticks and other bugs are moving further north and becoming more widespread due to warmer winters. 
 

yea. It is actually a BFD. 

[powderfreak]

54 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Like I said ... if we can load the slopes with artificially produced snow without adding to the carbon footprint...  go nuts man

Yeah that should be the goal of all industries for sure.

[powderfreak]

56 minutes ago, BrianW said:

I lived in Burlington VT in the late 90s early 2000s and worked at Smugglers Notch one winter. I remember seeing like 5 or 6 diesel powered air compressors running to make snow. The operations guy said Green Mountain power couldn't deliver enough electricity to run the compressors. 

Those compressors were belching out thick diesel exhaust and the amount of energy the ops guys told me was consumed to blow snow was absurd. 

Yeah that’s why they move away from that stuff… but still have diesel backups for power on lifts (ie power outage with people on chairs, need a way to move them).

Ski areas have come a long way since the 1990s, but then again maybe not as that’s all in the eye of the beholder.  Sort of like has humanity come a long way since the 1990s? Maybe in some respects, and not in others?

[CoastalWx]

20 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Maybe it’s not a big deal to you in bumble fuck Connecticut, but to billions of people it is a big deal.
 

Marine heatwaves are decimating marine ecosystems world wide.

Raging fires, droughts and floods which kill thousands. 

Diseases carried by ticks and other bugs are moving further north and becoming more widespread due to warmer winters. 
 

yea. It is actually a BFD. 

Yeah he’s gone wild. Renewables are exponentially getting more efficient /cleaner. It’s where we are going. Deal with it. I’m not an alarmist by any means, but it’s the same of story from fossil fuel weenies. I never realized UHI had an effect on the oceans!

[Damage In Tolland]

23 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Maybe it’s not a big deal to you in bumble fuck Connecticut, but to billions of people it is a big deal.
 

Marine heatwaves are decimating marine ecosystems world wide.

Raging fires, droughts and floods which kill thousands. 

Diseases carried by ticks and other bugs are moving further north and becoming more widespread due to warmer winters. 
 

yea. It is actually a BFD. 

All joking aside.. who did you vote for last election? 

[MJO812]

1 hour ago, forkyfork said:

fake snow isn't even snow. it's micro sleet

I would love to live in the lake effect region

 

[powderfreak]

2 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

I would love to live in the lake effect region

 

Ha, Forky is talking about the real fake snow.  Not the fake fake snow.  Decode that.

[psv88]

18 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

All joking aside.. who did you vote for last election? 

Al Gore. I write his name in every election since it was stolen in 2000. 

[Ginx snewx]

51 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Maybe it’s not a big deal to you in bumble fuck Connecticut, but to billions of people it is a big deal.
 

Marine heatwaves are decimating marine ecosystems world wide.

Raging fires, droughts and floods which kill thousands. 

Diseases carried by ticks and other bugs are moving further north and becoming more widespread due to warmer winters. 
 

yea. It is actually a BFD. 

Nah we adapt just fine. Wildfires are natural and historically low worldwide this decade. Earth's warming good luck stopping it. Oh and how about how agriculture is loving the warming, plenty of food. Droughts and flooding have always occurred man just decided to move into drought and flood prone areas. Let's not pretend most of the issues have always existed. Adapt or die. Bumblefuck lol.... some elitist shit lib right here

[Ginx snewx]

31 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Yeah he’s gone wild. Renewables are exponentially getting more efficient /cleaner. It’s where we are going. Deal with it. I’m not an alarmist by any means, but it’s the same of story from fossil fuel weenies. I never realized UHI had an effect on the oceans!

You didn't read what I wrote. It's ok

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Maybe we should all just start with being aware of our individual decisions as humans.  Reduce, reuse, recycle. 
Conserve energy, compost, buy durable products.  
Households should not be producing multiple bags of landfill bound trash per week.  

[kdxken]

2 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Tear down 1000s of acres of forest to put up solar panels that are useless in 20 years. Push EVS despite having a bigger end carbon footprint and destructive mining. 65% of global warming is from UHI. Yea let's put up more concrete and asphalt and tear down those ski areas. This is what happens when you let the do goodies make decisions without foresight and future implications. CC warriors are the worst.

Bad argument with the forests. Those solar panels in 20 years will reduce carbon a hell of a lot more than the trees. After 20 years if you want to replant trees have at it. Or you could just sell the land for condoz.

 

 

 

 

 

[bwt3650]

Not to get off topic, but snowmaking at killington should start tomorrow night thanks to these temps.


.

[CoastalWx]

45 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You didn't read what I wrote. It's ok

I did. Old school arguments.

[bwt3650]

Nah we adapt just fine. Wildfires are natural and historically low worldwide this decade. Earth's warming good luck stopping it. Oh and how about how agriculture is loving the warming, plenty of food. Droughts and flooding have always occurred man just decided to move into drought and flood prone areas. Let's not pretend most of the issues have always existed. Adapt or die. Bumblefuck lol.... some elitist shit lib right here

I literally lol at bumblefuck Connecticut…real survivalist stuff there.


.

[#NoPoles]

2 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Who cares?  You can ski on it just fine.  
 

it could be plastic pellets for all I care.   

Works just fine for shuffleboard

[dryslot]

I'm all in when China and India fall into compliance with minimizing the carbon footprint, I'm done carrying the torch into the front lines in a gun fight.