2023-2024 Ski Season Thead

[MRVexpat]

....until an unplanned early morning Sherbie lap on Sunday proved to be the final hurrah. Somehow the warmth hadn't affected the upper 2/3 of the trail and managed to ski 2-3" of medium density snow atop packed powder. Hopefully the screamer later this week doesn't completely damage what is a pretty impressive snowpack this time of year, all things considered. 

[Angus]

won't be going into the ravine this year. given the late February/early march warm up I'm not confident in the snow. Skied Saddleback on Sunday and it was ... outstanding. Mostly stuck to the terrain off the Kennebago lift. if you skied the sides of trails, there was lots of loose fresh snow. A few runs in the trees including chute 3 and 4 in Casablanca were great. The pack is not super deep - stumps and rocks protruding from the steep entry sections of Supervisor, Black Beauty and Warden's Worry but easily avoided. Day started with upper parts of mountain obscured by clouds, ended with blue skies. Not sure if that was it for me this season - really hoping for one more day - but if not, my best day of spring skiing will have been Killington in early February!

[NW_of_GYX]

8 minutes ago, Angus said:

won't be going into the ravine this year. given the late February/early march warm up I'm not confident in the snow. Skied Saddleback on Sunday and it was ... outstanding. Mostly stuck to the terrain off the Kennebago lift. if you skied the sides of trails, there was lots of loose fresh snow. A few runs in the trees including chute 3 and 4 in Casablanca were great. The pack is not super deep - stumps and rocks protruding from the steep entry sections of Supervisor, Black Beauty and Warden's Worry but easily avoided. Day started with upper parts of mountain obscured by clouds, ended with blue skies. Not sure if that was it for me this season - really hoping for one more day - but if not, my best day of spring skiing will have been Killington in early February!

Maybe some small D1 wet slab issues with this next system but then it’ll go isothermal this weekend and you should be good to go. Those buried weak layers will be gone. Spring time hazards will start appearing next week and the lower parts of sherb are probably numbered days. 

[LaGrangewx]

Been a pretty awesome winter living in Breckenridge and I still like throwing some observations in this chat. I am not nearly as accurate with my methods as Jspin but I’ve logged around 170” of snow this year in an average to maybe slightly above average winter. My guess is my location averages around 175” at 9200 feet. I still have a solid 2’+ snowpack but the Hoosier Pass Snotel about 25 minutes down the road but over 2k ft higher than me has a 5’ snowpack. The sun up at this elevation does some crazy things and south facing exposures already have grass where north facing has 2-3 feet of snow. Aspects are also very evident on ski surface conditions out here.
 

Another thing I’ve noticed is that I keep track of the Breckenridge snow stake webcam frequently since I live nearby. With the latest spring storm they received about 2” before measuring at 5am and reporting but then it snowed 3” more after clearing the board. However, that 3” vanished when the sun came out and the next morning they reported 0” because the board was clear. Whatever the board has at 5am is what they report. So for ski purposes it is indicative of what you’ll find on the slopes but the season total is not accurate of actual snowfall. Food for thought. 
 

I’ve always been interested with snowfall and comparisons and have now skied almost every resort in Colorado. Most of these places have fairly wide ranges between base to summit snowfall and report mid mountain snowfall. There are some exceptions. Somewhere like Wolf Creek averages around 435” at the base and most of their snowfall falls in the heart of ski season November through April. Steamboat is like this as well with great January February snow. As opposed to somewhere like Loveland or Abasin where a lot of snow falls in September, October, May, June and the heart of ski season can be drier even tho the base areas average around 350” for the entire year. Somewhere like Telluride has massive variance between base and summit with 4400+ vertical. The town probably averages 175” but up at 12500+ I bet they average close to 500”. When I was there the town got 1-3” of snow one day and I skied 15” of powder off the top of Palmyra Peak. The resort reported maybe 4-6” and was good about showing an average for the overall resort. Telluride has a rep for low snow but if you’re skiing the higher alpine terrain there, that gets as much or more snow than any other Colorado area. 
 

Out here ski areas seem to be less about inflating or trying to count every single CM of snowfall at the summit to report as somewhere like Jay Peak seems to do. Jay peak has this reputation of getting more snow than some of these mountains out here but if these places tallied snow from near the summits and every dusting that falls basically all of them would report more snow than Jay.

[Angus]

@LaGrangewxare you working out there? how did you find a rental (I assume). Thinking about a winter long trip in western US and Canada next year.

[LaGrangewx]

5 hours ago, Angus said:

@LaGrangewxare you working out there? how did you find a rental (I assume). Thinking about a winter long trip in western US and Canada next year.

I’m a younger guy and work remote and have a roommate. Rent isn’t terrible with a roommate and the community here is awesome. The fall was incredible since there was basically no tourists in town. Fished the alpine lakes almost everyday after work. Access to skiing and proximity to Denver area can’t be beat. The roaring fork valley area of Colorado is also awesome (Glenwood Springs to Aspen corridor). I think that’s one of the best places in the country for skiing in terms of terrain and lack of crowds with the 4 Aspen mountains. Highlands should be a bucket list place for everyone that loves to ski. Places like Telluride and Crested Butte are my favorite ski towns in the state but they are really isolated if you want that type of feel. 

[powderfreak]

The sun came out briefly yesterday to reveal a total of 8 people on the Quad at noon.

Midweek in April.  This is why ski areas close this time of year.

Imagine the demand on this look in November?  People will swarm one icy route down.  This time of year, nope. 

[Ginx snewx]

On 4/11/2024 at 10:29 PM, powderfreak said:

The sun came out briefly yesterday to reveal a total of 8 people on the Quad at noon.

Midweek in April.  This is why ski areas close this time of year.

Imagine the demand on this look in November?  People will swarm one icy route down.  This time of year, nope. 

Some know some don't. By far the best time of year to lap after lap.

[mreaves]

Random question for you ski people.  This is a State of Vermont Microsoft Teams background.  I can't figure out which ski area it is.  Sugarbush maybe? 

[MRVexpat]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

Random question for you ski people.  This is a State of Vermont Microsoft Teams background.  I can't figure out which ski area it is.  Sugarbush maybe? 

Smuggs!

[mreaves]

I’m in Lake Placid and I came into town past Whiteface. I know it’s the Olympic Mountain so I assume the terrain has to be decently challenging. I don’t much else about it though. Why isn’t it a “bigger” deal? Is it location or are there other reasons that bring it down a bit? Or am I just crazy and it is a big deal for skiers?

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, mreaves said:

I’m in Lake Placid and I came into town past Whiteface. I know it’s the Olympic Mountain so I assume the terrain has to be decently challenging. I don’t much else about it though. Why isn’t it a “bigger” deal? Is it location or are there other reasons that bring it down a bit? Or am I just crazy and it is a big deal for skiers?

I think it's still the greatest vertical in the east.  When I saw it way back in 1971 (rode the lift* during our June honeymoon) it was state-owned and suffering from chronic underfunding.  It was spiffed up for 1980 but I've no idea what condition it is now.

*Only the Little Whiteface lift was running for sightseers, and it was the scariest one I've been on - no footrest, teeny (9") lap "bar", and the final span was the scariest of all:  About 2,000 feet between tower and summit so the catenary seemed almost straight up as we approached the top.  Also, no trail beneath that span, just a sidehill 40-60 feet down and covered with the criss-crossed spruce cut and left when the lift was built.

[powderfreak]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:12 PM, mreaves said:

I’m in Lake Placid and I came into town past Whiteface. I know it’s the Olympic Mountain so I assume the terrain has to be decently challenging. I don’t much else about it though. Why isn’t it a “bigger” deal? Is it location or are there other reasons that bring it down a bit? Or am I just crazy and it is a big deal for skiers?

It is a big, steep, classic East Coast mountain.  It's up there in the top 5 on "big mountain terrain and vertical" in the East, IMO.

What keeps Whiteface from being huge is it's location relative to the populations... there is no easy way to get there except from I-87 in NY.  To get to Whiteface, probably 99% of the East Coast skiing population needs to drive past other "big deal" mountains.  If you are coming from SNE, you are looking at VT/NH/ME and would have to make a real conscious effort to head to Whiteface.

If Whiteface is located in a different geographic area, it would be a lot more prominent.

Thinking about skier behavior, Whiteface has the vertical and rugged look to be a high-end player, plus it has Lake Placid right there as a fabled tourism town.  However, what it doesn't have is snowfall and it is often very cold and windy.

Whiteface does not get the snowfall or consistent snowfall that other northern areas like the northern Greens, Presidentials, and Maine get.  Occasionally Whiteface gets a win on a big hugging coastal storm or inland runner.  Maybe a rouge lake effect band off of Lake Ontario.  But SE synopic flow likes to favor Gore and the southern Adirondacks.  Northwest flow favors spots NW of Whiteface.  Northeast flow seems to be the best but to get into deep moisture and mid-level lift on NE flow at Whiteface requires a well placed synoptic storm.

I think about why people drive past other ski areas to go to a spot much further away... say Jay Peak.  Or Sugarloaf.  People do it because of big snowfalls.  The northern Greens get dumped on the most on average, so people will travel from the population centers to them. Sunday River and Sugarloaf will develop big snowpacks and get the well-advertised nor'easters.  It is harder to find people who will opt to head to the northern Adirondacks over many of these other areas.  The market in Albany to Plattsburgh and around the Adirondack Park area is just smaller.

[mreaves]

59 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

It is a big, steep, classic East Coast mountain.  It's up there in the top 5 on "big mountain terrain and vertical" in the East, IMO.

What keeps Whiteface from being huge is it's location relative to the populations... there is no easy way to get there except from I-87 in NY.  To get to Whiteface, probably 99% of the East Coast skiing population needs to drive past other "big deal" mountains.  If you are coming from SNE, you are looking at VT/NH/ME and would have to make a real conscious effort to head to Whiteface.

If Whiteface is located in a different geographic area, it would be a lot more prominent.

Thinking about skier behavior, Whiteface has the vertical and rugged look to be a high-end player, plus it has Lake Placid right there as a fabled tourism town.  However, what it doesn't have is snowfall and it is often very cold and windy.

Whiteface does not get the snowfall or consistent snowfall that other northern areas like the northern Greens, Presidentials, and Maine get.  Occasionally Whiteface gets a win on a big hugging coastal storm or inland runner.  Maybe a rouge lake effect band off of Lake Ontario.  But SE synopic flow likes to favor Gore and the southern Adirondacks.  Northwest flow favors spots NW of Whiteface.  Northeast flow seems to be the best but to get into deep moisture and mid-level lift on NE flow at Whiteface requires a well placed synoptic storm.

I think about why people drive past other ski areas to go to a spot much further away... say Jay Peak.  Or Sugarloaf.  People do it because of big snowfalls.  The northern Greens get dumped on the most on average, so people will travel from the population centers to them. Sunday River and Sugarloaf will develop big snowpacks and get the well-advertised nor'easters.  It is harder to find people who will opt to head to the northern Adirondacks over many of these other areas.  The market in Albany to Plattsburgh and around the Adirondack Park area is just smaller.

That makes sense. Driving by, it looked, to my untrained eye, pretty gnarly. It isn’t easy to get to though. I’d image being owned by the state also means it’s doesn’t always have the most up to date equipment or technology either. 

[mreaves]

This is from the Whiteface Wikipedia entry:

“The average snowfall at Whiteface Mountain is 190 inches per year, and the mountain trails are serviced by additional snowmaking. During the 2016-2017 season Whiteface boasted a record-setting 281 inches of natural snowfall.”

Comparatively, that isn’t a lot of snow. 

[GCWarrior]

Didn’t get out as much as I wanted too last week but managed to get some high quality skiing in regardless.

Jay Peak last weekend was excellent.  Skied mostly woods and natural snow trails. Conditions were excellent considering the date.  Sun was out sometimes and we managed to miss the rain drops.  Monday was the worst weather day but the best ski day. We even managed to get some fresh snow Sunday am. 

I finished off the week with a trip to Mount Snow Saturday.  Skiing was fun despite the cloud cover.  They could easily open this coming weekend with how much snow is left.  But interest is waning for sure.  

I’ve got another 6 days on the calendar. Golf, ski and bike combos start to make things more exciting for sure. 
 

[powderfreak]

16 hours ago, mreaves said:

That makes sense. Driving by, it looked, to my untrained eye, pretty gnarly. It isn’t easy to get to though. I’d image being owned by the state also means it’s doesn’t always have the most up to date equipment or technology either. 

I think they have a pretty slick operation and the state has poured a bunch of money into it.   They had a decent expansion I think in the last decade or that might have been Gore?

Overall I think it’s just its location relative to population centers and while gnarly and good steep terrain, it’s just not enough to get folks to bypass all the other ski areas to get to Whiteface.

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

I think they have a pretty slick operation and the state has poured a bunch of money into it.   They had a decent expansion I think in the last decade or that might have been Gore?

Overall I think it’s just its location relative to population centers and while gnarly and good steep terrain, it’s just not enough to get folks to bypass all the other ski areas to get to Whiteface.

I hope it was Whiteface that got some improvement cash.  Back in the stone age (early '70s) I read an article about Whiteface in Ski Magazine, presumably compiled by an expert skier.  At the upper lift the attendant had to let a few chairs go by before seeing one fit for the writer to climb on.  The Ski guy said that the trail (Skyward?  It's been a long time) was obviously ungroomed and w/o any manmade snow, with numerous dark things sticking up thru the snow.  After several stump/rock near misses in 100 yards, the writer swallowed his pride, sidestepped up to the top and rode down on the lift.

[powderfreak]

Looking back on yesterday's closing day, this was my social post about the awesome day the local crew had.

This large assembled crew is the heartbeat of the Mansfield ski/ride community... 

"Through all the powder days, rain storms, hurricane force wind gusts, sunny days, soft snow days, frozen granular days and everything else, today might have been one of the most memorable of the season (well, aside from that cosmic event).

The end of the season is always bittersweet. On one hand, for myself and mountain colleagues, it’s liberating to take a break after 156 days of operations. On the other hand I always know I’ll miss the Stowe Family, the stoke and the Mansfield ski & ride culture over the summer.

Despite greybird skies and chilly weather, the Stowe Family showed up in force today to celebrate another season of sliding on snow. That culminated with the grassroots 4th Annual Human Slalom. This was incredible and is getting penciled into Stowe closing day lore and tradition already.

There are too many people to tag in these photos but hats off to Matt Testa aka Matty Mansfield for leading this grassroots charge and organizing the massive human slalom down Nosedive, after everyone grabbed some gnar points with some pole whacks on the Nosedive turns.

Between the organic gatherings like the largest human slalom, the Quad top dance party, and the last chair gathering on the Octagon deck to celebrate the season, the vibes were high out there.

Today proved the ski & ride culture is strong on Mount Mansfield and every single one of us plays a role in that. I feel lucky to be a part of it and to document it throughout the winter season. Thanks to all who contribute to the vibe, this community is awesome. My heart and soul are full today."

[NW_of_GYX]

Tucks and Boot Spur gullies still loaded up as of today. Incredible weather today and no crowds. I’m sure this weekend will be the gong show Tucks is famous for.




.

[Skivt2]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:33 PM, powderfreak said:

Looking back on yesterday's closing…….

 

I don’t want this to come off as discrediting anything you said as I know how powerful the feeling is when a mountain community comes together to celebrate itself.  There is nothing like it.  

But today was simply stellar at Killington.  And I’m sure at Stowe too but I’m sort of sad for the Stowe faithful that the lifts are not turning anymore   There is something so completely satisfying to have lift served skiing until, and even beyond, when the last trail is no longer top to bottom.  Like every last drop of the winter has been wrung out and used up.  We still have 5-6 weeks of lift served skiing depending on how you count the days and if the June 1st weekend happens.  The pile on top of Superstar does not seem to have really started melting yet.  Today we harvested the corn from the two night freeze up in 60 degree bluebird skies with no crowd at all. It’s hard to describe the stoke level at the big K today. The spring people are all gathering, the tailgate and house party scene is just beginning.  It is the most magical time of the year.

[powderfreak]

26 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

 

I don’t want this to come off as discrediting anything you said as I know how powerful the feeling is when a mountain community comes together to celebrate itself.  There is nothing like it.  

But today was simply stellar at Killington.  And I’m sure at Stowe too but I’m sort of sad for the Stowe faithful that the lifts are not turning anymore   There is something so completely satisfying to have lift served skiing until, and even beyond, when the last trail is no longer top to bottom.  Like every last drop of the winter has been wrung out and used up.  We still have 5-6 weeks of lift served skiing depending on how you count the days and if the June 1st weekend happens.  The pile on top of Superstar does not seem to have really started melting yet.  Today we harvested the corn from the two night freeze up in 60 degree bluebird skies with no crowd at all. It’s hard to describe the stoke level at the big K today. The spring people are all gathering, the tailgate and house party scene is just beginning.  It is the most magical time of the year.

Hey, I’ll agree. What makes Killington special is that the others close down.  That’s what drives the economic demand.  If all the ski areas stayed open, it would dilute the market and diminish the vibe at Killington this time of year.

Part of that excitement and feeling is because of the diminished supply, which focuses the stoke into one area.  Economic principles rule all.

Stowe could operate for sure, but I’ve seen too many empty chairs to believe it is worth it.  When everyone is open this time of year, the market is diluted.  We all enjoy skinning and earning our turns too, at least the folks that like this transition season.

Most of the community is onto Mtn Biking (MTB), maybe a skin up here or there, but closing at this juncture just doesn’t illicit any outrage.  It’s time here, despite the snowpack.

[MRVexpat]

On 4/23/2024 at 8:33 PM, NW_of_GYX said:

Tucks and Boot Spur gullies still loaded up as of today. Incredible weather today and no crowds. I’m sure this weekend will be the gong show Tucks is famous for.




.

I'll be up there Saturday! Certainly anticipating it being a crazy day. 

[NW_of_GYX]

2 hours ago, MRVexpat said:

I'll be up there Saturday! Certainly anticipating it being a crazy day. 

Yes. Get there early 

[Angus]

I may be done for the season but still holding out hope.

Just looking wistfully at the SLoaf webcam and looks beautiful. They are still skiing with close to 100 trails. On a SLoaf chatboard I read occasionally, there was a discussion of this season's snowfall - 171" with almost no snow falling from January 18 to March 9 - a person posted the following...

 

[mreaves]

6 hours ago, Angus said:

I may be done for the season but still holding out hope.

Just looking wistfully at the SLoaf webcam and looks beautiful. They are still skiing with close to 100 trails. On a SLoaf chatboard I read occasionally, there was a discussion of this season's snowfall - 171" with almost no snow falling from January 18 to March 9 - a person posted the following...

 

I think we can all agree that our very own @powderfreakis the gold standard for what he instituted at Stowe. He should be giving seminars at ski industry conferences. 

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, mreaves said:

I think we can all agree that our very own @powderfreakis the gold standard for what he instituted at Stowe. He should be giving seminars at ski industry conferences. 

Ha, thanks, it's just a passion for mountain weather and being in the right spot at the right time over a decade ago.  People did not believe ski area snow reports, and they still don't most of the time.  Since the start of the ski industry in the northeast back in the 1950s, there was optimistic embellishment to sell a product that was very weather dependent.  Even if it snowed, or the weather sucked, there's an economic reason to sugarcoat it.  And resorts/ski areas did, Stowe included, if not leading the charge back in the day.

The 1980s to the 2000s seemed to be prime time for snow reporting in the northeast to lose trust among skiers/riders.  The advent of the internet.  No longer was it just print, TV, or radio snowfall.  In the 2000s, Snow Reporting had a wake up call once folks started getting on social media and information traveled rapidly among users.

To me, I had always liked western ski area snow reports.  They were always matter of fact, snowfall from a designated plot, and were consistent due to avalanche dangers; there's no time to mess around out west with snow and weather observations.  But at the same time, its part of the culture on eastern snow reports to be a bit less rigid, so to speak.

Alta's Collins Plot is my favorite out west by far.  Automated snowfall readings by sensors every hour that are very accurate, I'd do anything for that technology. It is where Alta records their snowfall every season.  It is at 9,500ft, not 11K or 8.5K.  Just a representative mid-mountain snowfall.  They definitely get more snow up high, but their numbers provide skiers with a consistent value they can develop a familiarity with.  You know what the number means for the mountain.

These days with the cheap season pass market and the advent of the Epic, Ikon, etc, even Indy passes, the reason for ski areas to embellish has declined.  People are going to come/visit, they already paid for it.  The money is gathered up front before the season, you do not need to convince people to come on any given day.  You can let them know what they need to know, when deciding if to come or not.  Rain, snow, wind, freezing rain, powder or frozen granular.  You just report it as fact these days.  It's a great trend for eastern skiers and riders.

Even high level marketers in the big ski conglomerates know that being honest and transparent is a positive marketing strategy these days (and the past decade really).  Those who write the content are allowed to tell the story as truthfully as they can, which wasn't always the case at many ski areas in the past.

I loved the High Road getting some play in the local newspaper, by the long-time Scribe.  Kim Brown's column has been around for a very long time.  He started writing as a ski bum way back over a couple decades ago… writing about the ski area news in the local paper and being a skeptic to the old school snow reports.  He's got his weekly ski column documenting the last week of skiing at Stowe going on 20+ years?  This was in his season recap this week.

 

 

[GCWarrior]

Nice skin up Stratton today with a crew.  Weather was absolutely perfect.  Nice celebratory beer on the top deck and a great ski down.  

 

[MRVexpat]

On 4/25/2024 at 12:36 PM, NW_of_GYX said:

Yes. Get there early 

Showed up at 730 and snagged a roadside spot right next to the Pinkham entrance. Was certainly busy but I've seen much larger crowds there in years past. Eastern snowfields skied great this year and Right gully was just OK. Can't beat the afternoon lap of Hillmans to avoid walking down from the bowl. Sherb is getting thin and only open about halfway down as of Saturday. 

 

 

[tunafish]

2 hours ago, MRVexpat said:

Showed up at 730 and snagged a roadside spot right next to the Pinkham entrance. Was certainly busy but I've seen much larger crowds there in years past. Eastern snowfields skied great this year and Right gully was just OK. Can't beat the afternoon lap of Hillmans to avoid walking down from the bowl. Sherb is getting thin and only open about halfway down as of Saturday. 

 

 

Very nice!

 

This is making the rounds from this weekend...I know these people are in the minority, but there's always at least a few people who have no business being up there and are a serious threat to others.

https://packaged-media.redd.it/s87crw0kk4xc1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1714424400&s=82c16a98c5b6b4b3947770aee4695b167efc16f6#t=0