2023-2024 Ski Season Thead

[radarman]

What a frickin day today... near perfect spring skiing, albeit not spring.  

[HIPPYVALLEY]

15 hours ago, Layman said:

I enjoy reading about the lost/abandoned ski areas of New England and found this one to be relative due to the reasonably extensive coverage of their struggles throughout the 1980's due to lack of snow.  Everything now seems to be hyped as the "most", "worst", "extreme", etc but some of us have lived through so much of all this before.  Snow lovers in the 1980's = snow lovers in the 2020's.

Mt. Tom, Holyoke, MA:  https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Massachusetts/mttom.php 

 

This was a fun quote from the page:  "Though the 1984-85 season started on December 9, there was no more skiing until the day after Christmas. The holiday skiing too was short-lived, as temperatures soared into the 70s and melted the manmade snow. Manager Dave Moore told the Holyoke Transcript-Telegram, "If Mount Tom depended on what (snow) was on the ground, it would have been out of business 25 years ago." The season likely ended after the first weekend in March."

That was a nice little ski area in the heart of the valley. Yeah, multiple bad years in a row is nothing new in SNE. 

[SJonesWX]

the next 10 days+ do not look good for the ski areas. I am worried that my local hill is going to close early this year. that would be a bummer, as I have only gotten to use my pass 10 times so far. Last year I used it 10 times in March alone.

[Sugarloaf1989]

11 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

That was a nice little ski area in the heart of the valley. Yeah, multiple bad years in a row is nothing new in SNE. 

I skied there shortly before they closed for good in March of 1998. It was a descent place for it's location.  With a 750' vertical drop. 

[Sugarloaf1989]

I'm a bit late with posting this.  But I took my final  adaptive skiing lesson on Sunday 2/25. At Ski Sundown.  It was a beautiful bluebird day with temperatures in the middle 30's. I skied there 4 times this season.  1/31, 2/5, 2/15 and 2/25. It was lot's of fun,  with freindly instructors. I had one more lesson booked for 3/6. But it looks like they might not make it that late, with rain and 60F temperatures in the forecast. 

Gunbarel trail:

Stinger trail:

 

[rcostell]

Thank You for inspiring me today. Your fortitude and determination put the rest of us to shame. Glad you had a great day weather-wise. 

[rcostell]

My local hiil, Whiteface,  having a tough go...  https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/whiteface-complaints

[powderfreak]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:37 PM, amarshall said:

How did he die? Just curious from an educational point of view. 

 I also agree that it’s important to know the where and how, as it educates everyone to the danger or things to watch out for.  It was lower down in a popular backcountry “bowl” called the Rock Garden.  He fell into a hole or undermined area and became trapped and unable to free himself.  Some of those traps are like 20+ feet down.  Sounded like Rescuers had a sketchy time getting there, with a lot of undermined traps and punching through to air below the snowpack.  It may look good and smooth, but with krummholz stunted trees and big boulders propping the fluffy snowpack up with a lot of air underneath, it’s like a whole zone of trap doors.  My mind goes to all the thaws and warm weather, the rocks and trees absorb the heat and melt snow around them all winter.  Then we get a big cycle of fluff and wind to cover it all up.  You end up immobile or upside down, alone… I don’t know enough about it to know how much a partner would’ve helped, but the alarm would’ve sounded immediately instead of hours later.

[BrianW]

13 hours ago, powderfreak said:

 I also agree that it’s important to know the where and how, as it educates everyone to the danger or things to watch out for.  It was lower down in a popular backcountry “bowl” called the Rock Garden.  He fell into a hole or undermined area and became trapped and unable to free himself.  Some of those traps are like 20+ feet down.  Sounded like Rescuers had a sketchy time getting there, with a lot of undermined traps and punching through to air below the snowpack.  It may look good and smooth, but with krummholz stunted trees and big boulders propping the fluffy snowpack up with a lot of air underneath, it’s like a whole zone of trap doors.  My mind goes to all the thaws and warm weather, the rocks and trees absorb the heat and melt snow around them all winter.  Then we get a big cycle of fluff and wind to cover it all up.  You end up immobile or upside down, alone… I don’t know enough about it to know how much a partner would’ve helped, but the alarm would’ve sounded immediately instead of hours later.

Thanks for the info. I found a YouTube video from the area. Seems like an insane area to ski by yourself.  So the skier fell into something like at 35 seconds into the youtube video?

 

[powderfreak]

9 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Thanks for the info. I found a YouTube video from the area. Seems like an insane area to ski by yourself.  So the skier fell into something like at 35 seconds into the youtube video?

 

Yeah I don’t know the exact specific hole or whatever but am very familiar with the area and we all know it has holes.  Big holes sometimes depending on the winter.  It can be unnerving, like at 35 seconds the guy pulls up and is like “yup not that way.”  If you happen to fall weirdly or snow gives out, you can get trapped easily.  It’s just a boulder field that fills in with snow and most of us like to have the Stake at 75”+ for that zone.  We had that huge fluff snowfall tally like 30” and wind and that stuff covers a lot of holes but isn’t strong to support someone.

That video shows it great… that guy passes a lot of holes even from the top that aren’t entirely visible.  All around those rocks is usually hollow air traps.  Sometimes we have sat up top and looked down like 20+ feet into darkness.  The holes at the top are really deep.

[powderfreak]

Like this frame… you can’t see them but on the backside/downhill of every rock is going to be a gap/hole, often just covered by wind-blown fluff.  It’s a massive boulder field with like rocks of 20-30 feet high and between them is often air.  Its spooky.  You move very gingerly.

Skis often help distribute the weight and you can get through.  But if this guy got off his skis and tried to walk down that, he’d disappear.

 

This whole video is filled of them.  Looks like someone uncovered one between those rocks in front of the skier.

 

The one in the right will eat a person.

[psuhoffman]

@powderfreak or anyone else.... I'm pushing hard in rehap from a knee injury to try to get back out by Easter this season...but is there enough base at Subarbush, Stowe, and Sugarloaf for there to be a decent April ski season this year?  

[sankaty]

41 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

@powderfreak or anyone else.... I'm pushing hard in rehap from a knee injury to try to get back out by Easter this season...but is there enough base at Subarbush, Stowe, and Sugarloaf for there to be a decent April ski season this year?  

I can speak to the Killington area. Snowmaking trains are fine and north-facing naturals are still in decent shape. The mid-winter cutters were mostly snow-to-rain deals that actually netted a positive snowpack and impregnated the base with a lot of water that froze into the coral reef.

As long as there isn't unrelenting heat for March, there should be a decent amount of April terrain. At the very least, the Superstar glacier is deep and will last easily through April assuming nothing extraordinary happens.

Heading up to Pico this weekend. I'll report back if I need to amend the above.

[sankaty]

We were at Copper/A Basin last week. Skiing was fantastic.

[bwt3650]

We were at Copper/A Basin last week. Skiing was fantastic.

Hitting both of those and winter park next week. Out of copper and a-basin, which do you think has better trees and what areas to hit? I’m only at each for a couple days.


.

[DavisStraight]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:17 AM, Layman said:

I enjoy reading about the lost/abandoned ski areas of New England and found this one to be relative due to the reasonably extensive coverage of their struggles throughout the 1980's due to lack of snow.  Everything now seems to be hyped as the "most", "worst", "extreme", etc but some of us have lived through so much of all this before.  Snow lovers in the 1980's = snow lovers in the 2020's.

Mt. Tom, Holyoke, MA:  https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Massachusetts/mttom.php 

 

This was a fun quote from the page:  "Though the 1984-85 season started on December 9, there was no more skiing until the day after Christmas. The holiday skiing too was short-lived, as temperatures soared into the 70s and melted the manmade snow. Manager Dave Moore told the Holyoke Transcript-Telegram, "If Mount Tom depended on what (snow) was on the ground, it would have been out of business 25 years ago." The season likely ended after the first weekend in March."

Used to ski there all the time when I was in School, they had night skiing, so we'd go after class, 45 minutes away and get a few good runs in. This was back in the 80s so we had to go when we got some snow. Fun little mountain.

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, bwt3650 said:

Hitting both of those and winter park next week. Out of copper and a-basin, which do you think has better trees and what areas to hit? I’m only at each for a couple days.


.

IMO it depends on ability level.  A-basin has some amazing expert level trees over on the Pallavicini side...but they are extremely challenging.  Copper has some better trees for advanced intermediates to advanced but not true expert level.  Winter park has the best IMO of the 3 resorts you mentioned.  WP has really nice trees in between some of the trails on Mary Jane and especially under the Eagle Wind lift.  

[DavisStraight]

10 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Like this frame… you can’t see them but on the backside/downhill of every rock is going to be a gap/hole, often just covered by wind-blown fluff.  It’s a massive boulder field with like rocks of 20-30 feet high and between them is often air.  Its spooky.  You move very gingerly.

Skis often help distribute the weight and you can get through.  But if this guy got off his skis and tried to walk down that, he’d disappear.

 

This whole video is filled of them.  Looks like someone uncovered one between those rocks in front of the skier.

 

The one in the right will eat a person.

I watched one of those shows, lucky to be alive or something like that and a guy out west fell head first into a hole near a tree. He couldn't move but got damn lucky someone later in the day noticed something sticking out of the snow and he got help and he got out. That has to be a terrifying way to go.

[sankaty]

18 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

Hitting both of those and winter park next week. Out of copper and a-basin, which do you think has better trees and what areas to hit? I’m only at each for a couple days.


.

With the major caveat that both resorts are so big that we barely scratched the surface (and we only had one day at a-basin), we found better trees at a-basin. That second photo is taken in the trees around the Beavers lift. They are spectacular and not to be missed. They get pretty steep in sections, but the trees are nicely spaced and the snow was perfect. Kinda reminded me of Anarchy at Killington but with slightly greater max steepness and ideal conditions. Yeager was my favorite in that section, but they're all good. If you go too far to skiers left in that area near Bighorn/TInker Toy, there's a somewhat sketchy runout you need to navigate, but that's probably also where powder turns last longest. Honestly, I could have skied all day just in the Beavers and been ecstatic.

Also fun was the Zuma Bowl, though we didn't have much time to explore it. Just be careful; I almost got carried away in those trees and missed the base of the lift and skied down into the hike-back terrain. That would have sucked with sea-level lungs :).

We didn't even get to the Palli lift, which seems crazy, but we loved Beavers so much and just ran out of time.

We had more time to explore Copper and had better snow there. Also a little easier to find more accessible (i.e. less technical) advanced/expert terrain at Copper (a lot of the stuff at a-basin looked like I'd want a parachute). The above tree line terrain around the Sierra lift is so fun. We had great powder turns on Coleman's retreat and fun trees below Union Meadow. 17 Glade was also fun (get's pretty steep). There were many glades I didn't get a chance to try (between the Rendezvous and Storm King chairs, between Suber B and Alpine chairs, and all the stuff in Resolution bowl). Copper also has super fun blue mogul slopes (would easily be blacks in VT) including I-Dropper and lots of stuff around the Timberline chair. Timberline is a great place for mixed groups because it has lots of groomed stuff but also lots of fun, consequence-free bumps (Little Burn is a fun place to but on a show under the lift).

Have fun! Looks like you'll have great snow!

Powder under the Sierra lift:

Consequence-free bumps near Timberline:

 

[sankaty]

Oh, one last thing about the terrain under the Sierra lift at Copper. There's a huge, popular jump called the "Bush Jump" right under the chair near the top. It's a fun place to rest nearby and watch the young people make questionable life choices.

[Angus]

Just arrived home after 11 days out west, it was great trip in many respects including the fact, I ignored NE weather and news of any kind!

With that said, how grim do things look after this week up north in ski country - which looks pretty grim but with some chance of something up north at the end of the week?

With that said, here is a quick summation of the trip.

Two days at Palisades (aka Squaw) - I had never skied in California before and 'wow' to some of the terrain off the KT-22 lift. What a great mountain, you could spend a month skiing there and maybe be able to ski the majority of the terrain they have available between Alpine Meadows and Palisades.

After Palisades, flew into DEN and headed to Taos where wind kept us off the mountain for 1 of our 2 days, I hadn't been there since 2006(?) and was real interested to see how it measured up now versus back then when I was a much less competent and experienced skier. They had a great late January/ early February snow-wise but things have been dry since then but what a great mountain. Steeps are very legitimate and it's just a fun mountain with a great vibe. One thing I noticed now with the perspective of having skied all over the west in the last 15 years...it's not a huge place but definitely will keep a very good skier entertained for some time.

Next drove up to Pagosa Springs and skied Wolf Creek. Stumbled onto this place a decade ago and had been itching to get back. There was an article in the NYT a few months ago about the place so it's - for better/worse - being discovered. Skied in whiteout conditions the first day and then a blue bird day on the second day. The mountain is essentially 1,700 vertical feet of tree skiing spread across a ridge of 2-2 1/2 miles (also the continental divide). The mountain gets the most snow of any resort in CO. The mountain was forecast to get 2-3' on the first day we were there but I think they reported 12". What was amazing was their ability to run the lifts in crazy high winds. I always recommend this place to people and my second visit did not disappoint.

Last two days of the trip were spent one day each at Ski Cooper (Mt. Hale, birthplace of the 10th Mountain Division) and Monarch Mountain. Both days were absolutely gorgeous, cloudless days.

Arrived at Cooper after it had received 18" inches from the above referenced storm. This place is a wonderful family mountain. Skis much bigger than the advertised vertical (somewhere around 1,000') feet. The front side of mountain is wide open slopes and trails that have a really consistent 'intermediate' pitch. Also, the vista is essentially a range of some of Colorado's highest peaks. They have recently opened a backside pod serviced by a t-bar which has more expert terrain but it might only be 500-700' of vertical. IMO, definitely worth the visit. Was speaking to an expatriate NEer about the ability to ski the I-70 corridor, Cooper, an extensive cross country system(s) as well as backcountry and thinking I may need to come back for a longer stay.

The final day was at Monarch. Another non-destination area which is just up the road from Salida - known for fishing, whitewater rafting and kayaking. Great mountain - again not huge vertical but lots of fun terrain. Unfortunately, one of their chairlifts was on wind hold(?) which services some very steep bowl and trail skiing so probably didn't get to experience maybe a 1/3rd of the area's terrain. The terrain I did ski were essentially 1,000' vertical runs. A really nice mountain and definitely worth the visit.

The talk on the lifts in CA, NM and CO was about this winter's funky weather. As one guy said about Colorado, they've had a normal about of snow but between storms there have been warm ups which has prevented them from building base.

As of today, I've had 14 days of skiing in the western US and Canada and only 5 days of lift-serviced skiing in the east. Really hoping I can get some good days here at home over the next 6 weeks or so.

 

[powderfreak]

20 minutes ago, Angus said:

Just arrived home after 11 days out west, it was great trip in many respects including the fact, I ignored NE weather and news of any kind!

With that said, how grim do things look after this week up north in ski country - which looks pretty grim but with some chance of something up north at the end of the week?

It looks grim.  I’m a positive person but think setting expectations is a valued trait.  The next 5 days are going to hurt.  It will snow again, but is the damage already done to the ski season up north?

Snowmaking trails last a long time, but the naturals are in trouble.

[powderfreak]

11” depth increase in 3 hours at Alta’s automated mid-mountain plot.  About 0.75” water in short order at temps of 23F to 10F as the front moved through.  13” of depth increase in short order.  142 to 155 inches.

[bwt3650]

It looks grim.  I’m a positive person but think setting expectations is a valued trait.  The next 5 days are going to hurt.  It will snow again, but is the damage already done to the ski season up north?
Snowmaking trails last a long time, but the naturals are in trouble.

We are looking at almost 150 hours straight without dipping much below freezing. Throw in some rain and the fact that it’s March, and I agree that grim is a good term. That’s a lot of melting without solid refreeze nights. Butttt, there has been steady improvement in some of these storms over the last few days. I think it’s going to be a pick your spots kind of finish. I bet we score some real good days in the next 3 weeks, but they’ll be vastly outnumbered by the meltdown days. There’s been a few runs here and there where the 10th gets us pretty good and then sits in a good spot. Pro navy best hope for an extended good period. Just have to hope you can get out after one of snows.


.

[GCWarrior]

Gonna continue to be rough for a few more days.  Not dropping below freezing at elevation at night in NNE mountains is not good at all. But after today it looks like no sun for days and days and rain doesn’t seem as likely. Both the Euro and and the GFs bring snow in different ways late this week.  I have some faith in a good mid March to end of season up north.

SNE I think you will see resorts closing very soon even if they get snow late in the week. 

[CT Rain]

Today turned into an awesome day at Stowe with a really cool undercast and soft snow. Could have used some wax on my skis lol

[powderfreak]

41 minutes ago, CT Rain said:

Today turned into an awesome day at Stowe with a really cool undercast and soft snow. Could have used some wax on my skis lol

Weird day… bright sun and blue sky, then fog and mist, then back to sun.  A lot of moisture trapped under the inversion.

Soft spring conditions though… definitely slow in spots.

[CT Rain]

56 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Weird day… bright sun and blue sky, then fog and mist, then back to sun.  A lot of moisture trapped under the inversion.

Soft spring conditions though… definitely slow in spots.

Yeah liftline was fogged in and misty but Lord and those other blues on the side were completely sunny. Was nice to get some sun.

[snowgeek]

Stratton was bluebird. Clouds forming on the southern windward side quickly evaporated on the leeward side. Snow was soft and easy to turn in. I had trouble finding bumps. The firm base under the spring corn just refused to bump up. But what a glorious day with no lines and a festive vibe.



.

[powderfreak]

1 minute ago, snowgeek said:

Stratton was bluebird. Clouds forming on the southern windward side quickly evaporated on the leeward side. Snow was soft and easy to turn in. I had trouble finding bumps. The firm base under the spring corn just refused to bump up. But what a glorious day with no lines and a festive vibe.
 

Theres nothing like a spring day on snow to get folks pumped.  The vibe is always festive, one of the reasons I love any spring skiing.  Even mid-winter, ha.