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Winter El Nino Tracking Thread 2023-2024


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48 minutes ago, Terpeast said:

Just posted this.

This year, we have a -QBO (and falling) plus ascending solar flux. 

When I pair -QBO and ascending solar, I see a better signal for blocking. 

You'll like this. Read:

 

Imo, if the pacific is going to be in bad shape or not favorable to deliver cold into the US, east of the rockies, we will want to see unbelievable blocking to offset the pacific. I'm still hoping the pacific is somewhat favorable to deliver cold for us.

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1 minute ago, Itryatgolf70 said:

Imo, if the pacific is going to be in bad shape or not favorable to deliver cold into the US, east of the rockies, we will want to see unbelievable blocking to offset the pacific. I'm still hoping the pacific is somewhat favorable to deliver cold for us.

I think we will have some favorable 2-week periods interpersed throughout, though definitely not wall to wall. 

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12 minutes ago, Itryatgolf70 said:

Imo, if the pacific is going to be in bad shape or not favorable to deliver cold into the US, east of the rockies, we will want to see unbelievable blocking to offset the pacific. I'm still hoping the pacific is somewhat favorable to deliver cold for us.

The PDO is close to neutral now. Barring any turn back the other way, it shouldn't be a big problem. Many are touting how the -PDO along with a strong Nino dooms the Eastern US. Thing is the PDO isn't very negative nor is the Nino set to be very strong imo, nor is it predominantly east based, of which can be a killer for the Eastern States. 

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On 10/28/2023 at 9:30 AM, mattie g said:

People like to stick with their negative takes be abuse they draw attention and gives the poster the chance to spew “I told you sos” after the fact if things don’t go how many few it will.

Almost as annoying as the never ending obsession with 2009-2010 as if it's the eternal benchmark for all storms on the east coast. I find myself doing a lot of scrolling past all the reminiscing. The earth changes regardless of humans or science. Maps you see today are already obsolete. Science is testing/comparison/theorum/deduction/results and analysis. It isn't foolproof or absolute because it's a man made conceptual system for us to understand our immediate reality better. The same science that declares the earth is moving to a heatsink is the same science that declared frozen future ice ages in the 60s. The same science that 'knew' the sun rotated the earth. As our understanding of the planet increases over time so will the accuracy. The oceans are still 70 percent unknown even now and they are a driving force of weather patterns. The earth  has a chaos factor, not rigid systemic order that we can always package neatly for convenience.

and now back to your regularly scheduled program...

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1 hour ago, Pixee said:

Almost as annoying as the never ending obsession with 2009-2010 as if it's the eternal benchmark for all storms on the east coast. I find myself doing a lot of scrolling past all the reminiscing. The earth changes regardless of humans or science. Maps you see today are already obsolete. Science is testing/comparison/theorum/deduction/results and analysis. It isn't foolproof or absolute because it's a man made conceptual system for us to understand our immediate reality better. The same science that declares the earth is moving to a heatsink is the same science that declared frozen future ice ages in the 60s. The same science that 'knew' the sun rotated the earth. As our understanding of the planet increases over time so will the accuracy. The oceans are still 70 percent unknown even now and they are a driving force of weather patterns. The earth  has a chaos factor, not rigid systemic order that we can always package neatly for convenience.

and now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Go cry about it, unfortunately for you we are an atmospheric science board.

image.png.91d60a34ed8f6a07cf865c3357df9c94.png

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1 hour ago, Pixee said:

Almost as annoying as the never ending obsession with 2009-2010 as if it's the eternal benchmark for all storms on the east coast. I find myself doing a lot of scrolling past all the reminiscing. The earth changes regardless of humans or science. Maps you see today are already obsolete. Science is testing/comparison/theorum/deduction/results and analysis. It isn't foolproof or absolute because it's a man made conceptual system for us to understand our immediate reality better. The same science that declares the earth is moving to a heatsink is the same science that declared frozen future ice ages in the 60s. The same science that 'knew' the sun rotated the earth. As our understanding of the planet increases over time so will the accuracy. The oceans are still 70 percent unknown even now and they are a driving force of weather patterns. The earth  has a chaos factor, not rigid systemic order that we can always package neatly for convenience.

and now back to your regularly scheduled program...

May I refer you to a better source given your preferences 

46CE8EBE-6653-4331-9672-19D218734BFD.thumb.jpeg.b5598f1b0a60e27169b100358b324907.jpeg

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45 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

May I refer you to a better source given your preferences 

46CE8EBE-6653-4331-9672-19D218734BFD.thumb.jpeg.b5598f1b0a60e27169b100358b324907.jpeg

THAT'S RIGHT! Besides we're supposed to be "Snowball Earth" right now according to 60s scientists. Why isn't earth a block of ice?...but, but...

And just think nobody has mentioned fat squirrels, woolies, or persimmon seeds!

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43 minutes ago, Pixee said:

THAT'S RIGHT! Besides we're supposed to be "Snowball Earth" right now according to 60s scientists. Why isn't earth a block of ice?...but, but...

And just think nobody has mentioned fat squirrels, woolies, or persimmon seeds!

Snowball earth. D+ level bit.

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35 minutes ago, Pixee said:

THAT'S RIGHT! Besides we're supposed to be "Snowball Earth" right now according to 60s scientists. Why isn't earth a block of ice?

Because that idea never had consensus in the 60s and 70s. It's a common fallacy, published research from back then predicted the modern day warming rather accurately, surprisingly so for being half a century ago.

70s_climate_papers_med.jpg.6f4c4913c5276ff76bde2431a1a76d93.png.8efd4fe3a04417f96fbf404ff528c605.png

In any case the thought process of "science was wrong back then so it shouldn't be taken with any credence now" is one made in bad faith. Scientific inquiry is not infallible, but the best working theories or lines of research cannot be disregarded simply because some guy was wrong 500 years ago. Even your 60s argument has no weight when comparing to the current working theory of current global temperature rise. The 60s idea never had any great backing or predictive capabilities. The best understood theory of current global temp rise has both of those things. 

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37 minutes ago, Cobalt said:

Because that idea never had consensus in the 60s and 70s. It's a common fallacy, published research from back then predicted the modern day warming rather accurately, surprisingly so for being half a century ago.

70s_climate_papers_med.jpg.6f4c4913c5276ff76bde2431a1a76d93.png.8efd4fe3a04417f96fbf404ff528c605.png

In any case the thought process of "science was wrong back then so it shouldn't be taken with any credence now" is one made in bad faith. Scientific inquiry is not infallible, but the best working theories or lines of research cannot be disregarded simply because some guy was wrong 500 years ago. Even your 60s argument has no weight when comparing to the current working theory of current global temperature rise. The 60s idea never had any great backing or predictive capabilities. The best understood theory of current global temp rise has both of those things. 

I appreciate your post but nothing we say will ever convince them, they are deliberately engaging in bad faith to spread their ideas, not to have them challenged by others which would cause them to reevaluate their own. 

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Look folks, I'm just having fun with this. No need to get all cramped up, I'm simply saying science is an ongoing process. What was believed possible in the past not so much now. In 2300 people likely will question the current analysis with different technology. Theories ebb and flow, such as plate tectonics.

I worked for a certain atmospheric oceanic agency so I get the whole climate bit. What we don't know if this is a normal cycle spiked by human activity or a long term trend. It's also curious considering the environmental controls in place now that didn't exist decades ago. So many factors involved.

The ice age was posted as a parody. 

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On 10/30/2023 at 2:29 PM, Pixee said:

Almost as annoying as the never ending obsession with 2009-2010 as if it's the eternal benchmark for all storms on the east coast. I find myself doing a lot of scrolling past all the reminiscing. The earth changes regardless of humans or science. Maps you see today are already obsolete. Science is testing/comparison/theorum/deduction/results and analysis. It isn't foolproof or absolute because it's a man made conceptual system for us to understand our immediate reality better. The same science that declares the earth is moving to a heatsink is the same science that declared frozen future ice ages in the 60s. The same science that 'knew' the sun rotated the earth. As our understanding of the planet increases over time so will the accuracy. The oceans are still 70 percent unknown even now and they are a driving force of weather patterns. The earth  has a chaos factor, not rigid systemic order that we can always package neatly for convenience.

and now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Not for the NE.....but regardless, its a good analog.

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On 10/30/2023 at 2:29 PM, Pixee said:

Almost as annoying as the never ending obsession with 2009-2010 as if it's the eternal benchmark for all storms on the east coast.

That’s because it is. 3 HECS in one year, where most good winters have only one. H5 pattern cannot get any better than that winter. Pure textbook. 

And if it weren’t a decent analog this year, nobody would be obsessing about it now. 

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