New England Met Spring 2023 Banter

[Damage In Tolland]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:33 PM, powderfreak said:

Here's something I've noticed looking at western mountain web cams... this is Utah's Guardsman Pass that actually opened today.  But that's not what stands out to me.

In many of these western mountain areas still melting out from last winter, there are a lot of trees leafing out and greening up despite significant snowpack.

In this cam view there are some trees greening up on the left side but they seem to be in barely snow-free zones around their roots.  But the ones on the right side are in like 2 feet of super-dense remaining June snowpack.

The vegetation is wild out west... just greens up and leaf's out regardless of snow on the ground.

Sunlight . Trees resound to daylight and sunlight. Snow or no 

[powderfreak]

7 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Sunlight . Trees resound to daylight and sunlight. Snow or no 

Then why does leaf out vary from early to late spring depending on temps/weather?  The sun angle would be the same every single year.

Soil temp doesn’t matter?

[Damage In Tolland]

2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Then why does leaf out vary from early to late spring depending on temps/weather?  The sun angle would be the same every single year.

Soil temp doesn’t matter?

I’m no arborist but I do know a thing or do about landscape. I think it’s sunlight and ambient air temps mainly for leaf out. Grass growth and green up is much more soil temp dependent 

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

I’m no arborist but I do know a thing or do about landscape. I think it’s sunlight and ambient air temps mainly for leaf out. Grass growth and green up is much more soil temp dependent 

Looks like that’s the ticket.  Good call, I honestly thought soil temperature played a larger role in leaf out but looks like it’s one minor variable  that is easily be overcome by the more important temperature and sun.

I would’ve guessed sun and soil temperature over air temperature.

It seems it involves “a combination of signals including the weather becoming warmer, the days getting longer/increase in the amount of sunlight, the soil becoming warmer, and nutrients & water becoming more available.”

But the most important are:

“At the simplest level, most experts agree that a combination of temperature and photoperiodic cues is responsible for the timing of budburst in most temperate woody plants.”

 

[tamarack]

My guess is that photoperiod is the basic driver, but the timing can be modified somewhat by air/soil temps.  Spring phenology was very different in 2020 than in 2010, by about 3 weeks. (Until the mid-May freezes scorched a lot of new growth in that earlier year.)  That said, freaky mild temps in winter can cause bud break, especially in landscape plantings of shrubs/trees not native to a particular area or hardiness zone.

[radarman]

Got attacked by a Scissortailed Flycatcher in Texas today while climbing a ladder past her nest with 3 babies in it.  

Truly a magnificent bird!

[dryslot]

I want to crawl out of my skin, Fukn Browntail moth is the nastiest itch ever, I have it everywhere in clusters.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Those are awful

[dryslot]

52 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Those are awful

Got the recipe of ingredients to stop the itching and just batched it together and poured it into a spray bottle and i can tell you so far, Its working at relieving the itch.

[HoarfrostHubb]

1 hour ago, dryslot said:

Got the recipe of ingredients to stop the itching and just batched it together and poured it into a spray bottle and i can tell you so far, Its working at relieving the itch.

I've warned my kids (and wife) about those and some other very toxic caterpillars.  I don't recall them from when I was growing up

[dryslot]

2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I've warned my kids (and wife) about those and some other very toxic caterpillars.  I don't recall them from when I was growing up

We didn't have them growing up either, They had originally popped up in the mid coast area in the last 10 yrs or so and have migrated further inland in the past several years here.

[CoastalWx]

9 minutes ago, dryslot said:

We didn't have them growing up either, They had originally popped up in the mid coast area in the last 10 yrs or so and have migrated further inland in the past several years here.

They're gypsy moths right?

[CoastalWx]

Nevermind, I looked it up. They're different.

[dryslot]

6 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Nevermind, I looked it up. They're different.

The hairs of the caterpillar are toxic as that's there defense mechanism, Some people are subject to more of a reaction then others, Me being one of them as i am when i get insect bites, I swell up and develop a rash.

[tamarack]

45 minutes ago, dryslot said:

We didn't have them growing up either, They had originally popped up in the mid coast area in the last 10 yrs or so and have migrated further inland in the past several years here.

Our town is now in the "alert" phase.  (And EAB is only four towns away since some numbskull moved a few of the critters to the WVL area.)
I'm all but immune to poison ivy; my only reaction came after a morning of ripping the stuff from behind our church parking lot where kids would play.  Had a very mild case on my right forearm above the latex glove, a spot that had certainly been in contact over and over during the 4 hours of fun   I'll not intentionally challenge browntail moth hairs, but perhaps my sensitivity would be lower.

[SJonesWX]

1 hour ago, tamarack said:

Our town is now in the "alert" phase.  (And EAB is only four towns away since some numbskull moved a few of the critters to the WVL area.)
I'm all but immune to poison ivy; my only reaction came after a morning of ripping the stuff from behind our church parking lot where kids would play.  Had a very mild case on my right forearm above the latex glove, a spot that had certainly been in contact over and over during the 4 hours of fun   I'll not intentionally challenge browntail moth hairs, but perhaps my sensitivity would be lower.

speaking of the EAB-do they go away once they destroy all the ash? I ask because I haven't seen any in a couple years. they already killed almost all the ash trees in my hood. I have a smaller ash tree that if you look at the top, it is dead. but if you look up from directly underneath the tree, there is a lot of new growth down low. think it will survive?

[DavisStraight]

I guess those late freezes caused some damage in Vermont.

 

Federal assistance sought for northeastern vineyards, orchards hit by late frost (yahoo.com)

[dendrite]

1 hour ago, DavisStraight said:

I guess those late freezes caused some damage in Vermont.

 

Federal assistance sought for northeastern vineyards, orchards hit by late frost (yahoo.com)

It was ugly here too.

https://www.wmur.com/article/apple-trees-frost-southern-new-hampshire-6223/44080251#

https://www.wmur.com/article/labelle-winery-crop-damaged-frost-new-hampshire/43982251

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

4 hours ago, SJonesWX said:

speaking of the EAB-do they go away once they destroy all the ash? I ask because I haven't seen any in a couple years. they already killed almost all the ash trees in my hood. I have a smaller ash tree that if you look at the top, it is dead. but if you look up from directly underneath the tree, there is a lot of new growth down low. think it will survive?

No shot, ash are done. On the scale of chestnut. Might see some resilient suckers pop out of the old long dead trees. But the ash borer beetle  is no joke. Really sucks, one of the best east coast natives. 

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

6 hours ago, tamarack said:

Our town is now in the "alert" phase.  (And EAB is only four towns away since some numbskull moved a few of the critters to the WVL area.)
I'm all but immune to poison ivy; my only reaction came after a morning of ripping the stuff from behind our church parking lot where kids would play.  Had a very mild case on my right forearm above the latex glove, a spot that had certainly been in contact over and over during the 4 hours of fun   I'll not intentionally challenge browntail moth hairs, but perhaps my sensitivity would be lower.

Wow are you lucky. I’m super sensitive to poison Ivy. I almost always have it this time of year. I’m a horticulturalist not arborist like yourself so I spend my days weeding my gardens on the Ivy League campus i maintain. (Yes it’s Columbia/Barnard) I have tried in vain to remove it all. I think, since it’s such an important native, it just get bird seed dropped when I weed it unaware when it’s undistinguishable. Either that or cross contamination from a string trimmer. You would love my gardens. We just took down a huge red oak that was getting torn apart due to wind tunneling from a new building. I thought, based on old photos it was 75 or years old, but when I counted the rings it was 154. So planted at the same time Broadway was built that far north!

[Lava Rock]

Fun story. When I was a teen we were three wheeling and natured called. Jumped in the woods, leaned up against a tree and grabbed some nice green leaves as tp. Whoops, it was poison ivy. Scratching my ass so hard for a week after that dumb mistake

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

[OceanStWx]

7 hours ago, dryslot said:

The hairs of the caterpillar are toxic as that's there defense mechanism, Some people are subject to more of a reaction then others, Me being one of them as i am when i get insect bites, I swell up and develop a rash.

 

7 hours ago, tamarack said:

Our town is now in the "alert" phase.  (And EAB is only four towns away since some numbskull moved a few of the critters to the WVL area.)
I'm all but immune to poison ivy; my only reaction came after a morning of ripping the stuff from behind our church parking lot where kids would play.  Had a very mild case on my right forearm above the latex glove, a spot that had certainly been in contact over and over during the 4 hours of fun   I'll not intentionally challenge browntail moth hairs, but perhaps my sensitivity would be lower.

Never seen one in my backyard, but bring the kids to school 10 min away in Falmouth and their preschool had a bunch in their oaks. So that trace to moderate from Portland to Falmouth lines up.

My in laws had a huge problem this year at the lake house. They found the cherry trees on the streets and everyone came home from their first visit with rashes all over. They had the trees removed over a week ago but the suckers were still crawling around last week trying to find a place to settle down. 

If you are sensitive enough to them and inhale the hairs from a big infestation you can have breathing difficulty. So they warn you not to chuck a fan in the window at night (great news for the AC lovers out there).

[dryslot]

12 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

 

Never seen one in my backyard, but bring the kids to school 10 min away in Falmouth and their preschool had a bunch in their oaks. So that trace to moderate from Portland to Falmouth lines up.

My in laws had a huge problem this year at the lake house. They found the cherry trees on the streets and everyone came home from their first visit with rashes all over. They had the trees removed over a week ago but the suckers were still crawling around last week trying to find a place to settle down. 

If you are sensitive enough to them and inhale the hairs from a big infestation you can have breathing difficulty. So they warn you not to chuck a fan in the window at night (great news for the AC lovers out there).

You will probably see them the next few years as they migrate south and west, They were in my neighbors crab apple tree 4 yrs ago but the hairs from the cocoon can last several years on the ground so mowing stirs them up and gets them airborne, I'm sure there in my red oaks but they're in the 60'+ class where i couldn't address them, When their dormant in winter or early spring, You can cut the branch with the nest, Place in a bucket of soapy water or burn them to get rid of them but you would need to involve a neighborhood to do it to try to eradicate them and most don't even know what they are or even look like.

[OceanStWx]

2 minutes ago, dryslot said:

You will probably see them the next few years as they migrate south and west, They were in my neighbors crab apple tree 4 yrs ago but the hairs from the cocoon can last several years on the ground so mowing stirs them up and gets them airborne, I'm sure there in my red oaks but they're in the 60'+ class where i couldn't address them, When their dormant in winter or early spring, You can cut the branch with the nest, Place in a bucket of soapy water or burn them to get rid of them but you would need to involve a neighborhood to do it to try to eradicate them and most don't even know what they are or even look like.

They taught my kids how to ID them at school so they don't touch. We were playing golf at Belgrade last weekend and he comes running over telling me he found some, and sure enough there were a bunch under the oak trees by the clubhouse. 

[dryslot]

3 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

They taught my kids how to ID them at school so they don't touch. We were playing golf at Belgrade last weekend and he comes running over telling me he found some, and sure enough there were a bunch under the oak trees by the clubhouse. 

Good boy, That's good they teach them, There here for good unfortunately,  I know some kids that picked them up at daycare........... and ended up covered with the rash, Its nasty shit.

[dendrite]

They were brought into E MA in the late 1890s and spread rapidly through the eastern half of New England over the next 20 years before rapidly receding due to multiple prevention measures. They had them knocked back to the Cape and the Casco Bay area in the 70s, but obviously they’re making another surge through Maine now. 

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, dendrite said:

They were brought into E MA in the late 1890s and spread rapidly through the eastern half of New England over the next 20 years before rapidly receding due to multiple prevention measures. They had them knocked back to the Cape and the Casco Bay area in the 70s, but obviously they’re making another surge through Maine now. 

Not for nothing, but the cold weather can keep them in check. And lord knows we haven't had much of that lately.

[dryslot]

3 minutes ago, dendrite said:

They were brought into E MA in the late 1890s and spread rapidly through the eastern half of New England over the next 20 years before rapidly receding due to multiple prevention measures. They had them knocked back to the Cape and the Casco Bay area in the 70s, but obviously they’re making another surge through Maine now. 

 

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Not for nothing, but the cold weather can keep them in check. And lord knows we haven't had much of that lately.

Last year, They were not that bad out of the 2 previous, But this is the worst I've seen this year out of all.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

2 hours ago, dendrite said:

It was ugly here too.

https://www.wmur.com/article/apple-trees-frost-southern-new-hampshire-6223/44080251#

https://www.wmur.com/article/labelle-winery-crop-damaged-frost-new-hampshire/43982251

[DavisStraight]

1 hour ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

No shot, ash are done. On the scale of chestnut. Might see some resilient suckers pop out of the old long dead trees. But the ash borer beetle  is no joke. Really sucks, one of the best east coast natives. 

I have two huge dead ashes in my yard, gonna cut them down for firewood this year. Last year they had a little leaf out but nada this year.