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March 3-4 Potential Winter Storm


Hoosier
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12z NAM apparently didnt get the message. Why is this model even around any more. We are within 24 hrs of a potential storm and most  models have no precip in the Chicago area and this model has a 13 inches . It should be replaced by a dart board. At 18z is will go from 13 inches to 0.

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I keep coming back to a line from the TV show "The West Wing" where the President says "'You don't live longer, it just seems longer" and I wonder if these model quirks are really the result of having more data (even if it is bad data) available or if it just *seems like* we have more data and thus give the models more credit than they deserve. 

A broken clock is right twice a day and the NAM is going to be spot on occasionally. 

The extended forecast period (as I believe) used to by 5 days, then 7, now 10 days. Technology got better and our ability to see things earlier helped forecasting. 

But these 24-36 hour model swings are really where it baffles me. Yes I get that 100 miles of a storm track forecasted a week in advance is damn good, but that same shift in 24 hours causes a lot of disruption, extra costs of time/money/people, etc. 

Someone posted last night the NWS putting out a forecast with "snow ranging from 2 to 10 inches" (and I loved @RCNYILWX reply) and right now this winter has proven to me that the models even are struggling with a 24 hour Nowcast of some of these events and I just wait until the day-of to adjust activities due to potential weather. 

If I was the NWS I am not sure what I'd do. They *have* data, they *have* models, they are not just making up or wishcasting. But how does the 3 PM shift write the AFD (and send the public messaging) when I'm sure many times they know/feel the 3 AM update is going to flip flop potentially with a huge model change?

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This is one of the craziest storms I’ve followed in a while. I went from thinking this thing was definitely going west of me less than 24 hours ago and now I’m concerned it could end up east. That 2” first call is definitely still on the table :lol:

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13 minutes ago, michaelmantis said:

I keep coming back to a line from the TV show "The West Wing" where the President says "'You don't live longer, it just seems longer" and I wonder if these model quirks are really the result of having more data (even if it is bad data) available or if it just *seems like* we have more data and thus give the models more credit than they deserve. 

A broken clock is right twice a day and the NAM is going to be spot on occasionally. 

The extended forecast period (as I believe) used to by 5 days, then 7, now 10 days. Technology got better and our ability to see things earlier helped forecasting. 

But these 24-36 hour model swings are really where it baffles me. Yes I get that 100 miles of a storm track forecasted a week in advance is damn good, but that same shift in 24 hours causes a lot of disruption, extra costs of time/money/people, etc. 

Someone posted last night the NWS putting out a forecast with "snow ranging from 2 to 10 inches" (and I loved @RCNYILWX reply) and right now this winter has proven to me that the models even are struggling with a 24 hour Nowcast of some of these events and I just wait until the day-of to adjust activities due to potential weather. 

If I was the NWS I am not sure what I'd do. They *have* data, they *have* models, they are not just making up or wishcasting. But how does the 3 PM shift write the AFD (and send the public messaging) when I'm sure many times they know/feel the 3 AM update is going to flip flop potentially with a huge model change?

The 24-36hr massive shifts also create public distrust with forecasters, which could get someone in trouble down the line when an actual “Big Dog” is set to happen & they don’t believe it.

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29 minutes ago, SchaumburgStormer said:

Good thing my employer doesn't know how many hours of productivity I have lost over the past several seasons tracking phantom storms. 

My employer can tell when a storm may be coming because they notice a drop-off in productivity, time responses to emails and how quickly I actually read them.

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Having totally accurate models 3 or even 5 days out would be great; however; a weather board like this would become boring.  Part of what make the weather the fun to me is all the unknowns, clown maps, disappointments and triumphs.

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11 minutes ago, Stevo6899 said:

My employer can tell when a storm may be coming because they notice a drop-off in productivity, time responses to emails and how quickly I actually read them.

Which is what's great about WFH.

As long as I get the job done, my boss fortunately couldn't care less about "idle" hours, lol...

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1 minute ago, Powerball said:

Which is what's great about WFH.

As long as I get the job done, my boss fortunately couldn't care less about "idle" hours, lol...

Its always great when you got those kind of bosses. I don't think i could do the wfm. I can only be productive in an office setting. Its weird....Yea my boss is pretty chill and just makes fun of me is all. 

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I think Alek is right. We may be transitioning to more of a central IL/St. Louis winter climo. The events become more marginal temp wise in nature,with more thread the needle set ups, and increasingly narrow windows of winter like weather. Over the last few years what's amazing is DTW's knack to cash in on whatever meager opportunities present themselves. The UP and MSP benefit in not on increasing temps but increasing moisture as winter retreats northward

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5 minutes ago, Cary67 said:

I think Alek is right. We may be transitioning to more of a central IL/St. Louis winter climo. The events become more marginal temp wise in nature,with more thread the needle set ups, and increasingly narrow windows of winter like weather. Over the last few years what's amazing is DTW's knack to cash in on whatever meager opportunities present themselves. The UP and MSP benefit in not on increasing temps but increasing moisture as winter retreats northward

It's gonna be hell for @michsnowfreak as they transition to CMH climo :devilsmiley:     OTOH I'm looking forward to Nashville climo setting in here B).

Btw, I admit I'm jel over whomever gets the 6 hr thumping the models seem to be throwing out there, strictly because I like extreme snowfall rates.   But I'm only jel of that window of time.  Other than that you can keep the 40s and slop fest following the thump.   

 

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