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48 minutes ago, Winterweatherlover said:

Yea we've seen this all winter, models show front end snow, then northern stream gets stronger and stronger and ends up all rain. 

 

You also need actual cold air to get good front end snow opportunities, the boundary layer is always going to warm fast near the coast in these situations so without an artic airmass it's usually doomed.  

The difference this time is the models are showing colder air than the other times that they teased us with front end dumps. Right now they're cold enough to start it as snow even well south of the city. The other times they showed it borderline for the city. With those other teases right away I said I thought we had no chance, but this time I think we have a little better chance.

Hopefully the models are right about the magnitude of the cold air coming in next friday, which would set us up for some front end snow. Obviously it isn't a great setup and it would probably be a changeover event, but at least it appears there's a better chance of front end snow this time. However a better chance still doesn't mean a great chance. Still have to be skeptical and there's a long way to go. 

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38 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


Congrats New England. We all know how this is going to trend over the next week. The PNA is dropping all the way to -5

 

On 1/19/2020 at 9:28 PM, donsutherland1 said:

The following are the statistics for NYC's 6" or greater snowstorms (1950-2019):

1/1-31: 20% PNA-
2/1-14: 39% PNA-
2/15-29: 45% PNA-
3/1-15: 57% PNA-

Now, idk what that strong of a PNA means in late February or early March but I do know, thanks to Don, that generally a -pna isn't such a bad thing this time of year.

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1 hour ago, Winterweatherlover said:

Yea we've seen this all winter, models show front end snow, then northern stream gets stronger and stronger and ends up all rain. 

 

You also need actual cold air to get good front end snow opportunities, the boundary layer is always going to warm fast near the coast in these situations so without an artic airmass it's usually doomed.  

If we’re relying on SWFE events to bring snow, 95% of the time we’ll be disappointed south of I-84. New England is closer to the cold air source and does much better in those. If the low won’t redevelop south of us and we’re dealing with a low plowing into Erie PA, most of us are toast. 

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45 minutes ago, Rjay said:

 

Now, idk what that strong of a PNA means in late February or early March but I do know, thanks to Don, that generally a -pna isn't such a bad thing this time of year.

Once the PNA gets to -1.000 or below, the percentage of moderate or greater snowstorms (4" or more) falls. No storms after February 16 with a PNA of -1.000 or below saw 8" or more of snow. But there are a number of 4"-7" storms. In this pathetic winter, that would be a great storm.

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12z Euro still shows snow for us next saturday. It's cold enough for accumulating snow even down the southern NJ coast, so this is why I say we have a little better chance of a front end thump this time. Right now the models are showing much colder air than we've had at the start of all our other storms. Obviously a lot of time for this to trend worse though. 

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3 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

12z Euro still shows snow for us next saturday. It's cold enough for accumulating snow even down the southern NJ coast, so this is why I say we have a little better chance of a front end thump this time. Right now the models are showing much colder air than we've had at the start of all our other storms. Obviously a lot of time for this to trend worse though. 

Agree this is real snow verbatim with these temps obviously this could still change a lot. 

 

https://www.pivotalweather.com/model.php?m=ecmwf_full&p=sfct-imp&rh=2023021712&fh=198&r=us_ne&dpdt=&mc=

 

https://www.pivotalweather.com/model.php?m=ecmwf_full&p=sfct-imp&rh=2023021712&fh=204&r=us_ne&dpdt=&mc=

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12z Euro still shows snow for us next saturday. It's cold enough for accumulating snow even down the southern NJ coast, so this is why I say we have a little better chance of a front end thump this time. Right now the models are showing much colder air than we've had at the start of all our other storms. Obviously a lot of time for this to trend worse though. 

Day 8-9 on an op run is an eternity. It was just a few days ago that op models had a snowstorm for the middle of next week, we all know how that trended
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7 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


Day 8-9 on an op run is an eternity. It was just a few days ago that op models had a snowstorm for the middle of next week, we all know how that trended

12Z Euro now showing ice for the interior on Wed but it's the coldest model currently. It seems to cut off the warm surge and develop a secondary. 

 

GFS in the 60s for everyone so obviously some disagreement here. 

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8 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


Day 8-9 on an op run is an eternity. It was just a few days ago that op models had a snowstorm for the middle of next week, we all know how that trended

Not saying I'm that optimistic. I just think it's at least a slightly better chance than we've had. I never believed the middle of next week or any of the other teases that the models showed this winter. This is the first time I feel we have a little better chance of seeing a front end thump event because of more significant cold air coming in ahead of the storm, but at this early point I think it's best to be skeptical. I'm just saying a slightly better chance. It's something to watch. 

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Looking at the LR GEFS, once again, the -NAO flexes at the exact same time as the RNA.

There were discussions last year when the same thing happened where the NAO was considered "bootleg" and more a RESULT of the RNA rather than a coincidence.

So for the third time in 2 years the RNA and NAO are going to flex at the exact same time.

I wonder how often we have a strong RNA that a negative NAO suddenly appears. 

If it were a legit NAO, why can't we get an AO flex at the same time. Has to be a connection.

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Looking at the LR GEFS, once again, the -NAO flexes at the exact same time as the RNA.
There were discussions last year when the same thing happened where the NAO was considered "bootleg" and more a RESULT of the RNA rather than a coincidence.
So for the third time in 2 years the RNA and NAO are going to flex at the exact same time.
I wonder how often we have a strong RNA that a negative NAO suddenly appears. 
If it were a legit NAO, why can't we get an AO flex at the same time. Has to be a connection.

Still no signs of -NAM (-AO) response on the models into March. Still +NAM. You’re right, you usually don’t see this NAO/AO disconnect
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1 hour ago, Rjay said:

 

Now, idk what that strong of a PNA means in late February or early March but I do know, thanks to Don, that generally a -pna isn't such a bad thing this time of year.

There were only 2 events during a March La Niña -PNA with NYC going 6”+ since 1999.

03-22-18…..8.4”

03-02-09….8.3”

Both of them were west based -PNA events with a ridge in the Rockies. 

7006ED97-BAAA-43E5-A447-9149F0324C76.gif.75e02f585c17726e78b52a0cc5905470.gif

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


Still no signs of -NAM (-AO) response on the models into March. Still +NAM. You’re right, you usually don’t see this NAO/AO disconnect

Yup. I do not understand it however the NAOs we have been seeing have been somewhat useless. They called it bootleg as it was not a true NAO but rather a heat flex effect from a flexing RNA. Would explain the recent SE Ridge linkages with the NAOs, more of a RIDGE than blocking.

 

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