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February 2023 Obs/Discussion


Baroclinic Zone
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56 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

To be fair they've been mostly right with the warmth this year. One or two really cold days can't take away from how warm it’s been.

That wasn’t my point.  Let me be more clear, the point is it was said that this monster cold would not happen. It was said we needed to take 30 degrees off of the temps and then it may be more realistic. Those calls were flat out wrong. I don’t see these folks in here admitting they got it wrong? And also folks said it was meh…it was certainly not meh. Instead Record breaking for many. 
 

So yes, the winter has been warm and snowless, but that wasn’t the point here. A record breaking cold outbreak(that was touted not gonna happen), amidst a sea of warmth has indeed happened. 

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12 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

You are the far interior of NNE. No.

I don't consider myself the far interior of NNE, but this may be semantics.  We have the what is SNE CNE NNE conversation all of the time on the board.  I consider myself the border between CNE and NNE, but still in the coastal plain.  I am not in the foothills or the mountains.  The southern extent of the snow pack isn't that far south of me.

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17 minutes ago, brooklynwx99 said:

definitely an amplified look at 500mb on the GEFS... hopefully we can find a way to depress heights initially, otherwise it'll be difficult to get a good track out of this

nevertheless, it is looking more likely that we can see a legit storm, so it's worth keeping an eye on 

gfs-ens_z500_vort_us_26.thumb.png.47ce75228c37f1ae4c49fe1d8e7f12c1.png

it doesn't look negative yet, so it will track based on high pressure and confluence to its n and e?

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1 hour ago, Typhoon Tip said:

What? 

that's weird...  NCEP has a paper out there about the CFS that says that it has modest cool bias - owing to the fact that it's parameterized with 1988 climate metrics.

I posted this along with a link to the paper a couple weeks ago, folks.   The opposite of a warm bias, is what they've formally published. It needs an upgrade - in other words ... - to account for climate change.   

whatever. Either way... it's got like repeating hits out there right through the end of the month.  It's also got a dominating pattern construct over the hemisphere that is really quite - ironically - diametrically opposing that of the La Nina late winter --> spring climate.  That's odd for a "Climate" Forecast System... but who knows why-for

I think that paper was 2008. Theyve def upgraded CFS a couple times since then. 

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4 hours ago, SnowGoose69 said:

The problem I have pointed out to many though hoping for the shutout or breaking of the NYC record in our subforum though is that due to inevitable wavelength change and the fact the storm track has been active its unlikely we don't end up with 1-2 events that may even push us over double digits in the end.  I'd feel more confident if we were parched like we were in 01-02 or 11-12 but there is too much activity to likely get 8 more weeks of misses 

8 more weeks of winter in NYC? Annual average March snowfall in NYC is meager. After mid March it's downright uncommon. The immediate urban corridor has about 2 weeks of peak winter climo left - that's it. You can extend that to 4 weeks, including late season climo and maybe 6 weeks of fringe season.

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25 minutes ago, mahk_webstah said:

it doesn't look negative yet, so it will track based on high pressure and confluence to its n and e?

150hr ensemble means rarely show trofs with negative tilts owing to the blending effect on variable individual members. Trofs will sharpen on the means as you move closer in lead time. SLP will form in the area of strongest upper level divergence. But this region often doesn't match the SLP position of the mean due to the same blending effect.

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8 more weeks of winter in NYC? Annual average March snowfall in NYC is meager. After mid March it's downright uncommon. The immediate urban corridor has about 2 weeks of peak winter climo left - that's it. You can extend that to 4 weeks, including late season climo and maybe 6 weeks of fringe season.

Come March 15th and beyond, it’s basically over for everyone south of New England minus some freak, anomalous event. At that point you are really fighting climo, sun angle and length of day and it only continues to get worse after that point
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Euro is a shit model
Smh

When I told you that it was not a good NYC snow pattern I really meant it. I wasn’t trolling you or being a dick. We aren’t New England, something that may work for them could be garbage for us. IMO given this pattern, until there is a legit -NAO block and a 50/50 low you can forget a NYC snowstorm, especially with a marginal airmass. Same story if there’s a full latitude -PNA trough dumped in the west….bad for NYC snowstorms
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It's doing what the GFS is doing ...  it's carrying along internal destructive interference; but in the cast of this run, it ends up a big bag of nothing because of it.

There is no take away from any run - not last night's 00z or 12z.  I elaborated on the 00z run just to parse out what it was indicating for the sake of it alone.  There's not much to be gleaned, certainly not vested in the first place, in any deterministic sense of it... 

The reaction must purely be missing a drug dose in behavior.  lord -

 

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This isn't meant to rub salt in any wounds, because even up here we are on the southern edge of the gradient on many of these runs like the 12z EURO... but it is still mind-boggling how many Day 10 totals have had 0.0" modeled snowfall from like BOS-HFD-POU.  Like not even some fantasy half inch thrown in there somewhere.  In mid-winter climo.

Also feels like the St Lawrence Valley in southern Quebec is at like 150" of snowfall this season.

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7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

This isn't meant to rub salt in any wounds, because even up here we are on the southern edge of the gradient on many of these runs like the 12z EURO... but it is still mind-boggling how many Day 10 totals have had 0.0" modeled snowfall from like BOS-HFD-POU.  Like not even some fantasy half inch thrown in there somewhere.  In mid-winter climo.

Also feels like the St Lawrence Valley in southern Quebec is at like 150" of snowfall this season.

I'm curious ...

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4 hours ago, jbenedet said:

Pack going to get beatin’ back to the far interior of NNE, over next 10 days. 
 

Everything looks warm; teles, MJO, GEFS and CPC saying the same, 

...

...

...

...

 

Imho, the bottom two GEF series don't really reflect much support for NOAA's outlook. Those ridge aspects are very transient, and in fact, there's enough individual members with top heavy +PP draped N of the 558 isohypses; as well, that's confluence you see between ~ Lake Huron and the southern tip of JB... It all likelier points to pinning the mean polar boundary S of what those heights might at first suggest.  

That's A

B, I understand why-for the top NOAA prognostics.  The longer term climate and teleconnector markers are overwhelmingly converged upon some form or another of a massive SD warm anomaly over the eastern continent.   I mean...  La Nina climo + MJO's running around 3-6 phase spaces + the warm bursts in Feb trend of the last 5 years ... anything else we can add?   These do not protract winter.

We just are not seeing it in the dailies ...like, at all!  Which is weird.  I just wonder if/when the other shoe falls.   

 

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Well, just like 2016 this winter sucks ass(at least so far), but just like that winter we have a historic cold outbreak(very short lived as ‘16 was too) in a sea of warmth.
 

That winter did feature a historic mid Atlantic monster blizzard, that did clip parts of SNE with decent snow at least.   So the question begs to be asked, will this horrid winter at least feature one good snow event as that total clunker did?   We can hope. 

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11 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Worth 0.0 to me. 

Understandable bias but the cold shot was far more impactful vs a 6-12 event for the population.  Forecasters here were late in warning because the GFS shat all over itself.  I’m a weather guy-I relish all extreme events.

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Just now, weathafella said:

Understandable bias but the cold shot was far more impactful vs a 6-12 event for the population.  Forecasters here were late in warning because the GFS shat all over itself.  I’m a weather guy-I relish all extreme events.

Ya this arctic blast is definitely impressive and historic.  And yes the GFS sucked with it for sure.
 

Be nice to get a legit threat to track too though.  

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