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February 2023 Medium/Long Range Pattern Discussion Thread.....Torch or Tundra???


Carvers Gap
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36 minutes ago, Carvers Gap said:

And spring is also not on the Euro Weeklies.  Around the 21st, it goes cold and doesn't move.  Now, to be fair, we have seen it miss badly at this range already this winter.  BUT, it fits with the MJO rotation that we are seeing.  March looks nasty.

By nasty are you saying March could feature a lot of cold, rainy days with highs in the 40s and 50s ?

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All this warm weather has me considering a somewhat early application of pre-emergent on the yard. I just know if I do it, we will wind up with a bitterly cold March.

I always apply mine the 2nd week of February. Poa annua is already showing up, day lilies have sprigs and Forsythia are starting to pop. I’m getting my pre down before the weekend


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3 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

And spring is also not on the Euro Weeklies.  Around the 21st, it goes cold and doesn't move.  Now, to be fair, we have seen it miss badly at this range already this winter.  BUT, it fits with the MJO rotation that we are seeing.  March looks nasty.

Yeah this would fit in nicely for the mjo and the SSW coming in the next week. It probably will be right because we are supposed to be headed into warm months. Just go ahead and mess up spring as well lol.

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1 hour ago, Met1985 said:

Yeah this would fit in nicely for the mjo and the SSW coming in the next week. It probably will be right because we are supposed to be headed into warm months. Just go ahead and mess up spring as well lol.

In the same way that Nina winters find ways not to snow during Jan/Feb....Nino springs find ways not be warm until mid-late May.  

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How long has it been since we've had a system so strong its dynamics drove a change from rain to snow? I'm not talking about one of the "wave rides an arctic front" scenarios we've done pretty well with lately. I mean a big old bowling ball upper low rippin' fatties. 

10 or 20 years? 

I'd love to chase some rate driven snow this weekend across the upper plateau. 

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How long has it been since we've had a system so strong its dynamics drove a change from rain to snow? I'm not talking about one of the "wave rides an arctic front" scenarios we've done pretty well with lately. I mean a big old bowling ball upper low rippin' fatties. 
10 or 20 years? 
I'd love to chase some rate driven snow this weekend across the upper plateau. 

@Carvers Gap might be right about 2013. I can’t remember exactly what year but it was definitely before the 2013/14 winter because thats when I bought my Jeep and I didn’t have it for this event. Anyway…. I remember we were kinda expecting a rain to snow but no one knew how much. It changed over around 12:30-1 PM and it snowed about 4-5” in 2 hours right over Knoxville. They let us go home at 3pm from work. Normally a 30min drive took me 3 1/2 hours. The roads in Knoxville was a compacted slop but pretty slick. When I got to Black Oak Ridge between Ft City and Halls, the slop had frozen and even 4x4’s where struggling. This other event didn’t really do much in the valley but I remember another ULL got the mountains, NC and SC pretty good. The reason I remember it is because it hit in later October, first of November when Tennessee was playing at South Carolina. Josh Dobbs was a sophomore I believe. The mountains did really well but even Columbia SC picked up 3-5” that Saturday. @Carvers Gap probably remembers the year.


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You all are lawn care wizards....and that is a huge compliment.  

I’ve got a few plants/shrubs I’m worried about. Most of my shrubs go dormant but my Otto Lukyen’s and Big Blue Liriope do not look good at all. The rest of my evergreens look fine. Fescue is really coming in now.


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42 minutes ago, PowellVolz said:


@Carvers Gap might be right about 2013. I can’t remember exactly what year but it was definitely before the 2013/14 winter because thats when I bought my Jeep and I didn’t have it for this event. Anyway…. I remember we were kinda expecting a rain to snow but no one knew how much. It changed over around 12:30-1 PM and it snowed about 4-5” in 2 hours right over Knoxville. They let us go home at 3pm from work. Normally a 30min drive took me 3 1/2 hours. The roads in Knoxville was a compacted slop but pretty slick. When I got to Black Oak Ridge between Ft City and Halls, the slop had frozen and even 4x4’s where struggling. This other event didn’t really do much in the valley but I remember another ULL got the mountains, NC and SC pretty good. The reason I remember it is because it hit in later October, first of November when Tennessee was playing at South Carolina. Josh Dobbs was a sophomore I believe. The mountains did really well but even Columbia SC picked up 3-5” that Saturday. @Carvers Gap probably remembers the year.


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Oct31-nov1 2014. Different trajectory but same idea. Bowling ball with extremely marginal temps. Probably was a paste bomb. 

probably more robust than this will be.

6728901A-1703-491A-BD4E-CF864AC6F9B4.thumb.jpeg.2153c0f71766742350d5eb2308c651a0.jpeg

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The major checkpoint for me for a threat is getting the energy onshore over the US. Our energy will be partially onshore by 00z tonight and fully onshore by 12z runs tomorrow.  

Typically the 24hr period leading up to full onshore sampling is when we see the "snap" to a more uniform idea on modeling.  That period starts in just a few hours.  We should know rather soon if this is legit.

Euro took another step for more separation at 06z this morning.  Icon is heavily separated and the UK is a nice mountain snow like the GFS.   This has more support than just the GFS model.  

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3 hours ago, Holston_River_Rambler said:

How long has it been since we've had a system so strong its dynamics drove a change from rain to snow? I'm not talking about one of the "wave rides an arctic front" scenarios we've done pretty well with lately. I mean a big old bowling ball upper low rippin' fatties. 

10 or 20 years? 

I'd love to chase some rate driven snow this weekend across the upper plateau. 

January 2009. We were predicted for rain. Rain quickly changed to snow. MRX was so behind the curve on the event that they actually issued a winter storm warning for every county in the CWA except Hamilton county. Despite the fact that Hamilton county already had 3-5" on the ground and the roads.

I guess for me you can also count Feb 12 2014. We started as snow, got a couple of inches, changed to rain during the day, then changed back to snow and wound up with over 10". Downtown barely got anything with that one though.

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4 hours ago, Holston_River_Rambler said:

How long has it been since we've had a system so strong its dynamics drove a change from rain to snow? I'm not talking about one of the "wave rides an arctic front" scenarios we've done pretty well with lately. I mean a big old bowling ball upper low rippin' fatties. 

10 or 20 years? 

 

March 1st, 2009 is the last biggie I remember. There were areas of 9-11 inches across southern middle Tennessee. 

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4 hours ago, PowellVolz said:


@Carvers Gap might be right about 2013. I can’t remember exactly what year but it was definitely before the 2013/14 winter because thats when I bought my Jeep and I didn’t have it for this event. Anyway…. I remember we were kinda expecting a rain to snow but no one knew how much. It changed over around 12:30-1 PM and it snowed about 4-5” in 2 hours right over Knoxville. They let us go home at 3pm from work. Normally a 30min drive took me 3 1/2 hours. The roads in Knoxville was a compacted slop but pretty slick. When I got to Black Oak Ridge between Ft City and Halls, the slop had frozen and even 4x4’s where struggling. This other event didn’t really do much in the valley but I remember another ULL got the mountains, NC and SC pretty good. The reason I remember it is because it hit in later October, first of November when Tennessee was playing at South Carolina. Josh Dobbs was a sophomore I believe. The mountains did really well but even Columbia SC picked up 3-5” that Saturday. @Carvers Gap probably remembers the year.


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LOL.  So my youngest daughter was born in Jan of 2013.  We took her home from the hospital and just about couldn't get into the neighborhood as rain changed to snow.   It was about a seven mile drive.  We left the hospital while it as raining and spitting snow.  As we got her to the door, the sky flashed and it began to thunder as the snow just poured down.    I had left sub plans left at school, but didn't put the early dismissal procedures in the folder as I did not expect this!  I quickly called school to make sure the sub had some guidance.  Busses were stuck on Skyland Drive here in town.  It was a glorious mess.   

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We may be stealing some Nino climatology here at the end of winter.  When I look at modeling, there is a tendency for weakness in heights over the SE.  It takes a couple of systems cutting to our west, but the boundary (at times in the LR) presses Southeast of us.  Fountain has some great posts above.  That set-up is likely due in part to Nino climatology.  

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On the super long range front, I have been trying to find a model by week 4 which doesn't have a strong -NAO.  That is likely the strat warm stuff kicking in.  Still a long way out there, and modeling has missed on this during Jan...but there it is.  I said this yesterday, I still don't see Spring on modeling yet.  

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3 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

LOL.  So my youngest daughter was born in Jan of 2013.  We took her home from the hospital and just about couldn't get into the neighborhood as rain changed to snow.   It was about a seven mile drive.  We left the hospital while it as raining and spitting snow.  As we got her to the door, the sky flashed and it began to thunder as the snow just poured down.    I had left sub plans left at school, but didn't put the early dismissal procedures in the folder as I did not expect this!  I quickly called school to make sure the sub had some guidance.  Busses were stuck on Skyland Drive here in town.  It was a glorious mess.   

Hey Carver, My normal 10 minute trip home to Indian Springs that afternoon took almost 4 hours. I had stopped off at Food City on Eastman Road as the rain had just changed over...big mistake. These pictures are going up Chestnut Ridge about 2 miles from FC. By the way, I grew up on Skyland...back in the day, there were times where that little extra elevation really helped.

500440A8-DA40-43D1-A583-B940ED8E7B85.jpeg

1F93CCBD-DEBC-4181-A46C-373193A6A364.jpeg

52CFD41E-F8BC-4E26-9E6A-13520C9C9EB6.jpeg

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