Bhs1975 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Regarding the SST the Johnson Key buoy's low this morning was 1.1 warmer than yesterday meaning 90.0 (8AM). Today's 3PM SST of 96.1 is 1.3 warmer than the 94.8 of 24 hours ago. There's potentially still another 3 hours of SST warming with full sunshine and no showers anywhere nearby. Thus, there's a good chance that yesterday's 97.2 SST high will be exceeded today. Edit: An hour later (4PM) the SST rose from 96.1 to 97.5 with potentially another two hours of warming.https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=jkyf1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Bhs1975 said: . The Johnson Key buoy SST rose from 98.2 at 5PM to 98.4 at 6PM. This is the hottest I've seen it since I started following it earlier this month. Based on other sunny days, 6PM is typically the hottest hourly of this very shallow (5 ft) water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, GaWx said: The Johnson Key buoy SST rose from 98.2 at 5PM to 98.4 at 6PM. This is the hottest I've seen it since I started following it earlier this month. Based on other sunny days, 6PM is typically the hottest hourly of this very shallow (5 ft) water. Very high even for such shallow waters. Unfortunately a coral bleaching event is now underway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 24 minutes ago, bluewave said: Very impressive even for such shallow waters. Looks like a coral bleaching event is now underway. Yeah, upper 90s SSTs are amazingly impressive even for very shallow at the SST high of the day! I do wish I had followed Johnson buoy in past years so I'd have a better perspective on this month's SSTs vs past summers. I wonder if there are any easily obtainable records of hourly SSTs from other years. Apparently Murray Key and Johnson Key are only 4 miles apart. Based on that along with Johnson hitting 98.4, I feel that the 99.3 at Murray Key is believable since it is within a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhs1975 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 The Johnson Key buoy SST rose from 98.2 at 5PM to 98.4 at 6PM. This is the hottest I've seen it since I started following it earlier this month. Based on other sunny days, 6PM is typically the hottest hourly of this very shallow (5 ft) water.That's like one of those therapeutic pools.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhs1975 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 That's like one of those therapeutic pools..SSTs where over 100F in the tropics during the PETM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, TheClimateChanger said: My concern is about the depth required to be considered for the world record. The prior record was 99.7F set in Kuwait Bay "recorded by the offshore station KISR01 located in the middle of the Bay" per this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33096400/ So, that buoy doesn't appear to be in overly shallow water. OTOH, the Manatee Bay buoy is in shallow water as shown by a range of 10.1F from a 4AM low of 91.0 to the 101.1 high at 6PM. In terms of world record hot SST, I don't feel like it is apples to apples when comparing very shallow waters to deeper waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 The following graphic showing the very wide daily SST range (due to shallowness) illustrates well my concern about whether or not the 101.1F recorded yesterday at Manatee Bay buoy should count as the new world hot SST record vs the existing 99.7F record set in the deeper middle of Kuwait Bay as per the link in the post above this. Note the last two days having a 10+ SST range. Perhaps a more appropriate measure would be to only consider the mean for the day, which was 96F yesterday. Any opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Numerous records set from Maine into Maritime Canada with the current extreme marine heatwave in that area. Time Series Summary for Caribou Area, ME (ThreadEx) - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2023 63.7 7 2 2020 59.9 0 3 1947 59.5 0 4 2018 59.4 0 5 2010 59.2 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormchaserchuck1 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Really interesting timing with Atlantic hurricane season. I wouldn't be surprised to see anti-correlations take place here in the Atlantic wrt hurricane season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 1 hour ago, bluewave said: Numerous records set from Maine into Maritime Canada with the current extreme marine heatwave in that area. Time Series Summary for Caribou Area, ME (ThreadEx) - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2023 63.7 7 2 2020 59.9 0 3 1947 59.5 0 4 2018 59.4 0 5 2010 59.2 0 Clearly, the Caribou lows are being elevated by the runaway urban heat island effect and non-existent jet traffic there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said: Clearly, the Caribou lows are being elevated by the runaway urban heat island effect and non-existent jet traffic there. Even mature UHI locations like LGA haven’t seen that great a jump in warm season average low temperatures above the 2nd place month. The difference at LGA between 1st and 2nd place is only a few tenths of a degree. Caribou so far is +3.8° above the next closest year. Both stations have had exactly 4 out of the top 5 warmest July minimums since 2010. Time Series Summary for LAGUARDIA AIRPORT, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2020 75.2 0 2 2010 74.9 0 3 2013 74.5 0 4 1999 74.1 0 5 2023 73.8 7 6 2019 73.6 0 - 2016 73.6 0 7 2022 73.3 0 - 2006 73.3 0 8 1994 72.7 0 9 2018 72.6 0 - 2012 72.6 0 10 2015 72.5 0 - 2008 72.5 0 - 1995 72.5 0 Time Series Summary for Caribou Area, ME (ThreadEx) - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2023 63.7 7 2 2020 59.9 0 3 1947 59.5 0 4 2018 59.4 0 5 2010 59.2 0 6 1970 58.8 0 7 1994 58.5 0 - 1967 58.5 0 8 1975 58.4 0 9 2006 58.2 0 10 1973 58.1 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 8 hours ago, GaWx said: The following graphic showing the very wide daily SST range (due to shallowness) illustrates well my concern about whether or not the 101.1F recorded yesterday at Manatee Bay buoy should count as the new world hot SST record vs the existing 99.7F record set in the deeper middle of Kuwait Bay as per the link in the post above this. Note the last two days having a 10+ SST range. Perhaps a more appropriate measure would be to only consider the mean for the day, which was 96F yesterday. Any opinions? After yesterday's Manatee Bay buoy SST high of an amazing 101.1 at 6PM, today thanks to showers at times and shallow water was 7.1 cooler at 93.0 exactly 24 hours later. This illustrates my concern about whether yesterday's 101.1 SST should be made the new official world's highest SST: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 1 hour ago, bluewave said: Even mature UHI locations like LGA haven’t seen that great a jump in warm season average low temperatures above the 2nd place month. The difference at LGA between 1st and 2nd place is only a few tenths of a degree. Caribou so far is +3.8° above the next closest year. Both stations have had exactly 4 out of the top 5 warmest July minimums since 2010. Time Series Summary for LAGUARDIA AIRPORT, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2020 75.2 0 2 2010 74.9 0 3 2013 74.5 0 4 1999 74.1 0 5 2023 73.8 7 6 2019 73.6 0 - 2016 73.6 0 7 2022 73.3 0 - 2006 73.3 0 8 1994 72.7 0 9 2018 72.6 0 - 2012 72.6 0 10 2015 72.5 0 - 2008 72.5 0 - 1995 72.5 0 Time Series Summary for Caribou Area, ME (ThreadEx) - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2023 63.7 7 2 2020 59.9 0 3 1947 59.5 0 4 2018 59.4 0 5 2010 59.2 0 6 1970 58.8 0 7 1994 58.5 0 - 1967 58.5 0 8 1975 58.4 0 9 2006 58.2 0 10 1973 58.1 0 17 years at Caribou (since records began in 1939) have had monthly mean temperatures less than or equal to the current monthly minimum average for 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 On 7/24/2023 at 10:47 PM, TheClimateChanger said: More on the validity of yesterday's amazing 101.1F on Manatee Bay: "That could be a new world record, besting an unofficial 99.7 degree temperature once reported in Kuwait. But meteorologists say the Florida gauge's location in dark water near land could make that difficult to determine. What to know about that hot sea surface temperature Was Monday’s 101.1 degree temperature in Manatee Bay a valid record measurement? That depends on the surrounding circumstances, said Jeff Masters, a meteorologist for Yale Climate Connections. The reading would need to be verified, and no one keeps official sea surface temperature records, Masters said. The Manatee Bay gauge is very close to land, south of Biscayne Bay, and measures the water temperature at a depth of 5 feet. Since the Manatee Bay buoy is near land, the water temperature could have been heated up by floating plants and other debris, he said. Without photos documenting clear water there Monday, 'it will be difficult to verify the 101.1 degree record as valid.' Given the gauge's location near land and the Kuwait measurement in open water, Masters said the two really shouldn't be compared." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/07/25/water-temperatures-in-florida/70463489007/ Over the last couple of days, the SST has moved over 3F within just one hour several times. That's not normal. Between 5 and 6AM yesterday (before sunrise), it rose nearly 3F from 91.6 to 94.5! How can that be? The sun doesn't even rise til 6:45AM! Perhaps this was related to an incoming low tide? Low tide was at ~8:30AM. The rain in that area this morning is the most widespread I've noticed in several weeks and has helped to drop the 10AM SST to 86.9F vs 94.5F at 10AM yesterday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 18 hours ago, bluewave said: Numerous records set from Maine into Maritime Canada with the current extreme marine heatwave in that area. Time Series Summary for Caribou Area, ME (ThreadEx) - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Min Temperature Missing Count 1 2023 63.7 7 2 2020 59.9 0 3 1947 59.5 0 4 2018 59.4 0 5 2010 59.2 0 Anecdotally I was at Jennes Beach at Rye NH this last weekend … which other than the Isle of Shoals offering no significance … is all Labradorian termination waters. We bounced around on boogie boards to 0 discomfort, in ocean waves breaking 72F temperatures. I lived in Rockport MA … back whence the dinosaurs roamed … That eastern tip of Cape Anne sticks out into those same waters like a natural anal thermometer … perpetually sampling the health of the Labrador current. I know from aching balls of those old Augusts (no less) … 72F has to be quite rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 43 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: Anecdotally I was at Jennes Beach at Rye NH this last weekend … which other than the Isle of Shoals offering no significance … is all Labradorian termination waters. We bounced around on boogie boards to 0 discomfort, in ocean waves breaking 72F temperatures. I lived in Rockoort MA … back whence the dinosaurs roamed … That eastern tip of Cape Anne sticks out into those same waters like a natural anal thermometer … perpetually sampling the health of the Labrador current. I know from aching balls of those old Augusts (no less) … 72F has to be quite rare. Tip your a word artist. The visuals give significant depth to the understanding. Stay well and I hope the pain has eased. As always …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 I mean ( ^ ) ... a marine heat wave IN one of one of the coldest mid latitude oceanic conveyors of cold water on the entire planet? That is nothing shy of shocking. Yet, silent to all but the salient in such matters. That is what is going to machine our demise as a species ( ... and we'll take down countless others along with us...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Evolution's 2nd greatest blunder after the dinosaurs: the brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 The buoys in shallow water near S FL that had been having daily highest SSTs in the amazing upper 90s to 101.1F and making media headlines recently have all plunged within just two days time. They're only in the 84-88F range as of 4PM today thanks to more rainfall and less sunshine. That's all it took after going several weeks with little rain and mainly clear to partly cloudy skies. This illustrates well why these shallow water buoy SSTs are invalid for world record keeping purposes against, for example, the 99.7 recorded in much deeper waters in the middle of the Kuwait Bay. When you have Dr. Masters agreeing, you can probably take it to the bank that they're invalid. Their variations of ~14-15F occurring just within the last 48 hours show that their SSTs are acting more like coastal land station air temperatures than SSTs: Manatee Bay (range 86-101F): Johnson Key (range 84-98): Murray Key (range 84-99): In stark contrast, the deeper water at the Key West buoy has cooled due to the same rainfall/less sunshine only ~1.5F. That along with daily ranges that have typically been no more than ~2F tells me that the Key West buoy, unlike the other three, likely has valid SSTs for world recordkeeping purposes. The hottest there so far this month has been 92.7F. Although not nearly as hot as those three shallow buoys, it is still quite hot for Key West and indicative of the marine heatwave in the area. The lowest there so far this month has been 88.7. So, the range so far this month at Key West has been only 4.0F. Compare that to the range of ~14-15F just for the last two days at those shallow buoys! Key West (range 90.5-92.3): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Another extreme marine heatwave for the planet under a near record 500 mb blocking pattern for July in that part of the world. We had another near record 500 mb anomaly last December just north of that location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 23 hours ago, Stormchaserchuck1 said: Really interesting timing with Atlantic hurricane season. I wouldn't be surprised to see anti-correlations take place here in the Atlantic wrt hurricane season. Yeah, the MJO guys published thoughts like that recently… Saying that, even though the deep layer is kind of sketchy the MDR may become active - implicitly extraordinary thermal Stowes in the oceanic basin, may overwhelm. I mean… It’s kind of a hot dog thing to say, but eventually something’s gotta give there - right ? I don’t know… It sounds exciting to think that way, but you still need the mechanics. Otherwise the heat will just gain and gather. I think the Labrador current story is actually the greater one anyway. I mean those shallow Floridian tuck waters in and near the bite between the keys and the bottom of the peninsula always go Red Sea at this time of year… Actually more like August sure. And don’t get me wrong. They’re above normal and it’s impressive. But in terms of climatology … relative to? Extending anomalies 12° above normal over area the size of Texas blows that Florida stuff away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormchaserchuck1 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: Yeah, the MJO guys published thoughts like that recently… Saying that, even though the deep layer is kind of sketchy the MDR may become active - implicitly extraordinary thermal Stowes in the oceanic basin, may overwhelm. I mean… It’s kind of a hot dog thing to say, but eventually something’s gotta give there - right ? Right, I've been thinking that since 2012 wrt Arctic ice melt. It might really accelerate in the coming years. They've been saying the Gulf Stream would slow down for a while, and it's nice to see that buckle without really much 500mb help. I mean there was a weak -NAO, but overnight lows 4 degrees above average says that something greater is going on.. I wonder if that cold push on July 31 over Caribou has some extra-meaning.. probably not but it's interesting. Antarctica ice regression is now-time I think as we had a big global warming push Jan-Mar, and it's timely being now realized. Nice to see the Earth be on par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishcast_hater Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Climate change - the new “COVID’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Check out how much cooling of the extreme warmth of the SSTs shown by the buoys in/near shallow FL Bay occurred between late Monday afternoon's extreme highs and this morning's lows just from a weak surface trough causing a significant increase in showers (the most rain in weeks) and much less sunshine (these are SSTs (F), not air temperatures): Manatee Bay: from 101 to 84 Johnson Key: from 98 to 79 Murray Key: from 99 to 81 In contrast the Key West buoy, which is in deeper waters and thus has a much lower intraday range that is often only ~1F, cooled much less (from 92.3 to 89.6) and is still very warm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 On 7/24/2023 at 7:20 PM, GaWx said: Yeah, upper 90s SSTs are amazingly impressive even for very shallow at the SST high of the day! I do wish I had followed Johnson buoy in past years so I'd have a better perspective on this month's SSTs vs past summers. I wonder if there are any easily obtainable records of hourly SSTs from other years. Apparently Murray Key and Johnson Key are only 4 miles apart. Based on that along with Johnson hitting 98.4, I feel that the 99.3 at Murray Key is believable since it is within a degree. I was able to find a few longer term observations from the shallower Florida Bay on twitter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoSki14 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 10 hours ago, wishcast_hater said: Climate change - the new “COVID’ . I would love to live in your reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishcast_hater Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I would love to live in your reality.Thank God I don’t live in yours where “we must trust the science” from the same folks who say men can be women and the “science is settled”. There are tens of thousands of scientists who don’t believe in “climate change” but are silenced because they don’t support the narrative- that’s a big red flag for me. My concern is that in the name of the new religion our freedoms are being taken away. That’s what keeps me up at night not “climate change”. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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