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December 22-23, 2022: Warm Rain to Arctic Chill


WxUSAF
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51 minutes ago, MN Transplant said:

I assume the snow algorithms are just having a tough time with the speed of the front.  

 

47 minutes ago, MN Transplant said:

Everything about that map screams temporal resolution problems. 

Compare with the GGEM on TT. It shows “blue” but with basically no accumulation on the snow maps. I tried to look on Pivotal (with 3hr resolution) to see if there’s a wave that forms on the front and can explain the 1-3” on the GFS. Answer is “maybe”…isobars do look a little baggy as the front passes. 

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1 hour ago, midatlanticweather said:

Oooo. The downsloping snow hole in my back yard! West to east thunderstorms do this to. I am not sure if this is just a resolution gap, typical f such a scenario, but I swear this happens out my way in summer storms too! 

 

Screenshot_20221219_111557_Chrome.jpg

Merry Christmas, Ji! Here's some coal in your stocking!

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2 hours ago, WxUSAF said:

 

Compare with the GGEM on TT. It shows “blue” but with basically no accumulation on the snow maps. I tried to look on Pivotal (with 3hr resolution) to see if there’s a wave that forms on the front and can explain the 1-3” on the GFS. Answer is “maybe”…isobars do look a little baggy as the front passes. 

Here's an example from CoolWx, with hourly GFS output.  It still has to assign a precip type to an entire hour period, and I'd be willing to be that the little spike there is not all snow precip in the model.

Below that is a cool vertical view of the temperature structure.

prec.thumb.png.da0d4213eef23608ebf3a03f22aca5ae.pngGFS.thumb.png.41e54433c9a5e8fe668f6d7e6ca05b13.png

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5 minutes ago, MN Transplant said:

Here's an example from CoolWx, with hourly GFS output.  It still has to assign a precip type to an entire hour period, and I'd be willing to be that the little spike there is not all snow precip in the model.

Below that is a cool vertical view of the temperature structure.

prec.thumb.png.da0d4213eef23608ebf3a03f22aca5ae.pngGFS.thumb.png.41e54433c9a5e8fe668f6d7e6ca05b13.png

So it looks like around 18-19z when the front crosses DCA? 

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55 minutes ago, WEATHER53 said:

As depicted 80mph winds on backside of that low on Friday and Saturday 

Would not be surprised at all to see multiple reports of that...

Coming from the Vaisala ultrasonic anemometers that take 10 samples/sec at the top of a 1600 foot multiplex tower! :D

Seriously though, advisory level winds certainly not out of the question and definitely warning criteria for mountains.

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1 hour ago, MN Transplant said:

Looks like peak gusts in the mid 40s to around 50 on Friday per the GFS, Euro, and ICON.  Potentially higher near the Bay and for our upslope friends.

Correct and out in the Midwest a 970 low with a 1040 high several hundred miles to west of it would produce 70-80mph winds or gusts. Let’s see if those values of pressure gradient differential verify.  The comments I made earlier may not have fully dintinguished I was talking about out there and not DC.  

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2 hours ago, MN Transplant said:

Here's an example from CoolWx, with hourly GFS output.  It still has to assign a precip type to an entire hour period, and I'd be willing to be that the little spike there is not all snow precip in the model.

 

       While some displays are wonky, the GFS (and the other NCEP models) internally do track precipitation at every time step, and if it's falling through a thermal profile that supports snow (or sleet), it will be tallied into the snow bucket.    Algorithms, based off of temperature profiles, are used to compute instantaneous precip type, but if we're seeing snow accumulation output, the model integration has precipitation falling into a column supporting either snow or sleet.    

        It gets dicey because the "snowfall" is a liquid equivalent, and users have to apply a ratio, and we all know that the commonly-used 10:1 is often not representative.   It's worth noting here, though, that the accumulated snow depth field looks similar to the 10:1 maps. so the model is legitimately accumulating snow on the ground.    

        To be clear, the GFS might be totally wrong with the idea that significant anafrontal precip will fall in this event.   But the snow on the GFS maps is not due to weird post-processing.

     

 

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7 minutes ago, high risk said:

       While some displays are wonky, the GFS (and the other NCEP models) internally do track precipitation at every time step, and if it's falling through a thermal profile that supports snow (or sleet), it will be tallied into the snow bucket.    Algorithms, based off of temperature profiles, are used to compute instantaneous precip type, but if we're seeing snow accumulation output, the model integration has precipitation falling into a column supporting either snow or sleet.    

        It gets dicey because the "snowfall" is a liquid equivalent, and users have to apply a ratio, and we all know that the commonly-used 10:1 is often not representative.   It's worth noting here, though, that the accumulated snow depth field looks similar to the 10:1 maps. so the model is legitimately accumulating snow on the ground.    

        To be clear, the GFS might be totally wrong with the idea that significant anafrontal precip will fall in this event.   But the snow on the GFS maps is not due to weird post-processing.

     

 

Good to know.  What is the time step now for the GFS?

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