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January 2023 Obs/Discussion


Torch Tiger
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Just now, brooklynwx99 said:

it's also very important to note that when dealing with -EPO pattern that feature lots of low level cold, heights can be very misleading

using the 12z GFS OP as an example, there's a huge mid level ridge centered over the NE US, absolute torch, right?

gfs_z500a_us_54.thumb.png.690b27ce325210b5e4ac53bbf2d3e199.png

nope! not even close. there's a ton of low level cold air in SE Canada with highs in the teens and 20s in New England. a WSW level thump then ensues

gfs_T850_us_54.thumb.png.dd9487cd9811b0e3d49282dd1104bf2c.png

keep this in mind when people freak out about weak SE ridges or WARs in the extended on the means. it tells you absolutely nothing about the low levels. the heights are only high because it's torching at like 500-700mb when it's insignificant to precip type

We know our EPO dump rules up here. Cold air bleeds in, models totally miss depth of cold.

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1 minute ago, SnoSki14 said:

What is your average snowfall and how much did you receive so far?

50-55” and I’m at 4.3”.  Ya it’s sucked so far no doubt. But you’re posting only from one point of view.  Changes look to be afoot…I wouldn’t be trusting an OP run that shows all cutters for the next 16 days either.  
 

Maybe it all fails, but I’m trying to be objective, along with some others,  and not just look at fantasy cutters either.  

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Just now, WinterWolf said:

50-55” and I’m at 4.3”.  Ya it’s sucked so far no doubt. But you’re posting only from one point of view.  Changes look to be afoot…I wouldn’t be trusting an OP run that shows all cutters for the next 16 days either.  
 

Maybe it all fails, but I’m trying to be objective, along with some others,  and not just look at fantasy cutters either.  

Looks like we are headed to a back loaded winter. These fools will fall by the wayside. 

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1 minute ago, Typhoon Tip said:

It bothers me that the last several cycles of the GFS operational version have/are in just about 180 degrees out of sync with the EPS in the 240+ time range.

It doesn't bother me for deterministic forecasting - per se... But I do feel pretty strongly that a pattern changes ...if indeed that takes place, would be exerting already between D6 and 10.  SO what? is the GFS trying to avoid even changing that pattern?  

GFS just keeps dumping deep troughs into the west....we slowly get arctic cold bleeding in here but it takes a long while....so that is partly why I'm not all that gung ho at least prior to 1/25....there's certainly a possibility that one of the pre-1/25 shortwaves produce something interesting, but no way to be confident in that with the deep western troughs it shows.

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

The -EPO can do all it wants, but if you dumping troughs into the Baja of CA...you aren't going to do well. 

You want the PV at least in Hudson Bay or a little east of that if you have a deep western trough....kind of like Feb '94....we had troughs digging pretty deep there but it worked out because the PV wasn't sitting over Alberta, it was much further east.

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3 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Looks like we are headed to a back loaded winter. These fools will fall by the wayside. 

Ya I hope so too. We’ve seen this back loaded thing many many times.  Maybe it works out for us?  

 

What is irritating is that he’s from Jersey, and posting about what he doesn’t get in his area on the NE forum. 

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2 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

The -EPO can do all it wants, but if you dumping troughs into the Baja of CA...you aren't going to do well. 

exactly ... And I don't have a problem with it doing that per se. I find it interesting that the GFS wants to force a pattern change toward that variant, where the other's in the playground want the +PNA/PNAP version

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Just now, ORH_wxman said:

You want the PV at least in Hudson Bay or a little east of that if you have a deep western trough....kind of like Feb '94....we had troughs digging pretty deep there but it worked out because the PV wasn't sitting over Alberta, it was much further east.

Right, that's been tough to do. Some signs that tries to happen towards end of the month. 

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i will say, if we keep seeing a legit -EPO/-AO/-NAO ridge bridge, it's game on. the ensembles have been hinting at the possibility of it

seems like the -EPO/-AO is relatively high probability at this point, which would dislodge lots of cold. the -NAO would put it over the top by keeping cutters to a minimum

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Just now, brooklynwx99 said:

i will say, if we keep seeing a legit -EPO/-AO/-NAO ridge bridge, it's game on. the ensembles have been hinting at the possibility of it

seems like the -EPO/-AO is relatively high probability at this point, which would dislodge lots of cold. the -NAO would put it over the top by keeping cutters to a minimum

Doesn't the PNA lose relevance by February. We were able to get the Feb 2013 snowstorm despite a deep western trough 

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A GFS flavor would likely result in what Brook's is screaming re the overrunning type messy winter storm structures. 

The EPS  ...

what does the UKMET family look like?  I bet that might be interesting - but it may not go out far enough?  The UKMET loves to curl the flow early, so if it is somehow avoiding the SW tuckies, heh.

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12 minutes ago, brooklynwx99 said:

what a bonkers run. this is a ridiculous overrunning pattern

all day 16 OP caveats applying, obviously

gfs-deterministic-nhemi-z500_anom-4885600.thumb.png.e3e29850572991bf07a343d8070d78b6.png

Blocking retrograding into Greenland, check

TPV getting to HB as Will said, check

Cold air very available, check

Juicy southern stream tapping Pacific and Gulf moisture, check

Hi Leon?

Only thing missing here is puncuation.

 

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1 minute ago, mahk_webstah said:

Blocking retrograding into Greenland, check

TPV getting to HB as Will said, check

Cold air very available, check

Juicy southern stream tapping Pacific and Gulf moisture, check

Hi Leon?

Only thing missing here is puncuation.

 

Only thing missing this winter is snow IMBY, not counting today's nusiance. I'm done writing novels until that looks imminent.

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It doesn’t carry a lot of deterministic value but for example…

the GFS operational version out there between the 23rd and 26th is a perfect example of what we’re talking about wrt negative EPO type system profile. That’s a decent front end dump of snow followed by glazing scenario for interior Massachusetts with ease on that solution even though the 500 mb doesnt look anything like it would drive that. 

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