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Central PA Winter 2022/2023


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39 minutes ago, Blizzard of 93 said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this weekend storm trend a little further north over the next few days to get at least the LSV involved in some Winter weather.

I would be very surprised. To me the progressive pattern points to a system escaping out to sea.

Let's be completely honest and argue that the system comes farther north...where is the cold source outside some super wound up low that pulls cold down from above?

 

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21 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said:

I would be very surprised. To me the progressive pattern points to a system escaping out to sea.

Let's be completely honest and argue that the system comes farther north...where is the cold source outside some super wound up low that pulls cold down from above?

 

There certainly isn’t a cold front or a pressing High to push it to the south either.

The better solutions that showed more snow in CTP on & off the last few days have featured a little more of a progressive system with a good upper low track under us.

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Great post from pro Met. @wdrag in the NYC forum that I think could apply to us in Central PA.

“fwiw... if the ULL tracks east, probably no go for us n of I80 but if the ULL tracks 1 or 2 degs further N, then I think the I84 corridor has a good chance of deformation zone snow (4") in n-nw edge of 7H LOW where FGEN-convergence occurs.  I'll be watching trends in the modeled 7H-5H lows the next several days.  In the meantime, 12z op model heights at 500MB are generally 30-60M higher than the 12z EC op. That makes a significant difference in ptype nw edge. 

Thermal profile are marginal but I'm pretty sure if models reverse the se trend in today's models, that we'll see a pretty decent amount of snow in the Pocs-I84 corridor.  This still has a chance to edge a little further north than recently modeled. It's not an overwhelming amount of cooling in the column that is needed, in my opinion. It's latitude of the 7H-5H low that I think is important fgen significant snow N of I80.”

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2 hours ago, canderson said:

Bugs are out today. Saw a ton on my walk along the river and at the house. 56 was my high. 

Probably start seeing mosquitoes next week with the warmth. 

I miss real winters but they might never coming back during our lifetimes …

In my time back since 2018, they really do not seem to go away very long.  When it is cold they are not seen but within a day or two of a warm up, out they come.

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11 minutes ago, Atomixwx said:

Stop

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk
 

Why, it’s Wednesday & the storm isn’t getting to our region until Sunday.

We have seen this scenario countless times over the years.

The Euro ensemble at 6z today had 2-4 inches of snow across most of CTP.

I will “stop” when it is crystal clear it’s not happening.

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2 hours ago, canderson said:

Bugs are out today. Saw a ton on my walk along the river and at the house. 56 was my high. 

Probably start seeing mosquitoes next week with the warmth. 

I miss real winters but they might never coming back during our lifetimes …

Really? Do you plan on dying in 5 years. Just because the overall climate is warming doesn't mean we can't get what the west is getting. You guys all act like all the sudden winter is going to disappear for good. I'm sure you can look back in 1900s and find stretches of years without winter. 

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11 minutes ago, Rd9108 said:

Really? Do you plan on dying in 5 years. Just because the overall climate is warming doesn't mean we can't get what the west is getting. You guys all act like all the sudden winter is going to disappear for good. I'm sure you can look back in 1900s and find stretches of years without winter. 

It is evident to me weather patterns have changed entirely and we aren’t going back. 

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43 minutes ago, anotherman said:


Saw a honeybee today and smelled the ramps coming up in the woods. By my estimation, we are a full month ahead of schedule, if not more.

Honeybees will come out from the hive during warm spells. They wer out in the beginning of January when it was warm. I have 1 hive of honeybees.

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41 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said:

I would be very surprised. To me the progressive pattern points to a system escaping out to sea.

Let's be completely honest and argue that the system comes farther north...where is the cold source outside some super wound up low that pulls cold down from above?

 

I dunno if I’d call progressive directly the problem here. Certainly the northern branch is progressive but this potential event has trended away from a tailing wave running along a frontal boundary into a closed off upper low cut off from that flow. The former scenario was one that required perfect timing and the latter scenario (what guidance has been showing as of late) is one that needs a way to get some latitude. 

Gonna show 3 panels from the new 18z Euro ensemble mean. Initially, there’s a shortwave in the northern branch that passes Friday Night/Sat ahead of the closed low in the south and a positively tilted trough orientation. 

60hr

EPS60.thumb.png.4705de13ba221df1b39ddded94278cf6.png

At 84 hours, the closed low is cut off from the northern branch but progressing along with the upstream shortwave diving into California pressing.

EPS84.thumb.png.3395b3d95077c540e6cf42cbecc2fdef.png

The key to getting this up high enough to catch C-PA in my opinion is getting any kind of buckling upstream in the northern branch to draw the low up even just a tad. The Euro/EPS indicate a bit of digging with a NS shortwave in the north central at 102, where the GFS/GEFS doesn’t have much. Additionally, the GFS/GEFS is a bit faster progressing the closed low. The Euro being sharper with this feature is likely a big reason why it’s the most ambitious with affecting PA. 

EPS102.thumb.png.0a3133e296e09bb6ab1180d48b99594e.png

So in terms of temps…. yea overall temp pattern is warm. With that progressive northern branch jet that high in latitude thanks to a currently +AO/NAO and +EPO, it really shouldn’t be much of a mystery why. What makes this a potential snow oasis in a sea of Pacific modified air is the closed upper low itself is fairly deep and would have a cold pool aloft sufficient for a snow column with good precip rates and probably some elevation as well. If the system comes north enough, this would likely be just an enough to be a snow event in the central counties, and might be more of an elevational deal in the Sus Valley with marginal low level/surface temps. That’s a big if, because I’m still not sure we can get much precip above the mason-Dixon. Want to see more model support for that obviously, but the latest Euro and ensembles were certainly at least mildly interesting. 

If it doesn’t get us it’s probably going to give WV, interior VA and perhaps even the higher western Carolinas a snow event, which I guess would be hilarious if one were into schadenfreude kind of humor. I guess Elliot technically still would be on track with his 70 is more likely than snow call lol. Although, he did acknowledge this event in a post just a bit ago at 8pm. Surprised no one brought that up. 

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23 minutes ago, MAG5035 said:

I dunno if I’d call progressive directly the problem here. Certainly the northern branch is progressive but this potential event has trended away from a tailing wave running along a frontal boundary into a closed off upper low cut off from that flow. The former scenario was one that required perfect timing and the latter scenario (what guidance has been showing as of late) is one that needs a way to get some latitude. 

Gonna show 3 panels from the new 18z Euro ensemble mean. Initially, there’s a shortwave in the northern branch that passes Friday Night/Sat ahead of the closed low in the south and a positively tilted trough orientation. 

60hr

EPS60.thumb.png.4705de13ba221df1b39ddded94278cf6.png

At 84 hours, the closed low is cut off from the northern branch but progressing along with the upstream shortwave diving into California pressing.

EPS84.thumb.png.3395b3d95077c540e6cf42cbecc2fdef.png

The key to getting this up high enough to catch C-PA in my opinion is getting any kind of buckling upstream in the northern branch to draw the low up even just a tad. The Euro/EPS indicate a bit of digging with a NS shortwave in the north central at 102, where the GFS/GEFS doesn’t have much. Additionally, the GFS/GEFS is a bit faster progressing the closed low. The Euro being sharper with this feature is likely a big reason why it’s the most ambitious with affecting PA. 

EPS102.thumb.png.0a3133e296e09bb6ab1180d48b99594e.png

So in terms of temps…. yea overall temp pattern is warm. With that progressive northern branch jet that high in latitude thanks to a currently +AO/NAO and +EPO, it really shouldn’t be much of a mystery why. What makes this a potential snow oasis in a sea of Pacific modified air is the closed upper low itself is fairly deep and would have a cold pool aloft sufficient for a snow column with good precip rates and probably some elevation as well. If the system comes north enough, this would likely be just an enough to be a snow event in the central counties, and might be more of an elevational deal in the Sus Valley with marginal low level/surface temps. That’s a big if, because I’m still not sure we can get much precip above the mason-Dixon. Want to see more model support for that obviously, but the latest Euro and ensembles were certainly at least mildly interesting. 

If it doesn’t get us it’s probably going to give WV, interior VA and perhaps even the higher western Carolinas a snow event, which I guess would be hilarious if one were into schadenfreude kind of humor. I guess Elliot technically still would be on track with his 70 is more likely than snow call lol. Although, he did acknowledge this event in a post just a bit ago at 8pm. Surprised no one brought that up. 

Who is on the MU watch this evening?  Mag showed that person up!

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2 hours ago, Bubbler86 said:

In my time back since 2018, they really do not seem to go away very long.  When it is cold they are not seen but within a day or two of a warm up, out they come.

Earwigs, worms, moths, slugs and many other  insects have been out almost every night and day for the last 6 weeks. I have cole crops growing outside this winter and slugs have been a major problem the last few weeks.

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