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Winter Banter Thread


Rjay
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/earth-mass-extinction-60-minutes-2023-01-01/

 

So eyeopening-- even though some of us knew about this already-- it's still sobering to see it and read it-- especially on New Years Day!


Eh, I disagree with you. Ehrlich was proven wrong 50+ years ago, and even though he pushes for depopulation, he’s conveniently still kicking at 90.

More land and oceans are protected now than ever before, and we use less farmland more efficiently than in years past, making more food than ever before, with fewer people farming it, allowing nature to reclaim it. We’re also moving towards cleaner and more efficient energies. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s in progress.

I just don’t care for the doom and gloom. It feeds into our base survival instinct. It’s been going on since time immemorial in different shades (today’s eco doom is just tent revivals from 160 years ago); same church, different pew.


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15 minutes ago, North and West said:


Eh, I disagree with you. Ehrlich was proven wrong 50+ years ago, and even though he pushes for depopulation, he’s conveniently still kicking at 90.

More land and oceans are protected now than ever before, and we use less farmland more efficiently than in years past, making more food than ever before, with fewer people farming it, allowing nature to reclaim it. We’re also moving towards cleaner and more efficient energies. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s in progress.

I just don’t care for the doom and gloom. It feeds into our base survival instinct. It’s been going on since time immemorial in different shades (today’s eco doom is just tent revivals from 160 years ago); same church, different pew.


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I know what he said was delayed (and they covered that too) but the main reason why it's inevitable is we have a physical limit and that's the surface area of the planet (of which only 30% is land.)  There's also the fact that we're chopping down all the forests-- which is part of what is driving the current mass extinction.  On top of that there's heavy pesticide use, which is causing the destruction of pollinators.  The 70% of all species going extinct since 1970 is pretty alarming and that will be up to 95% by 2100.

We'll conserve a few sure, but a lot are going extinct-- many already have.

I don't believe in depopulation either, but I do believe in maintaining a balanced birth vs death rate, which is 2 children per family.  I think we'll get there (we already are starting to because male infertility is rising, even in developing countries)-- so it seems like Nature has its own way of doing things to keep humanity in balance with other species.  That's actually a part of the discussion they didn't cover and it's fascinating to see how the planet regulates itself.

 

The thing I agree with that they said the most is-- the planet will be fine, even after we're gone.

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I know what he said was delayed (and they covered that too) but the main reason why it's inevitable is we have a physical limit and that's the surface area of the planet (of which only 30% is land.)  There's also the fact that we're chopping down all the forests-- which is part of what is driving the current mass extinction.  On top of that there's heavy pesticide use, which is causing the destruction of pollinators.  The 70% of all species going extinct since 1970 is pretty alarming and that will be up to 95% by 2100.
We'll conserve a few sure, but a lot are going extinct-- many already have.
I don't believe in depopulation either, but I do believe in maintaining a balanced birth vs death rate, which is 2 children per family.  I think we'll get there (we already are starting to because male infertility is rising, even in developing countries)-- so it seems like Nature has its own way of doing things to keep humanity in balance with other species.  That's actually a part of the discussion they didn't cover and it's fascinating to see how the planet regulates itself.
 
The thing I agree with that they said the most is-- the planet will be fine, even after we're gone.

I think the birth rate comes down anyway with economic opportunity and incentive - you see that already in advanced economies.


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1 minute ago, North and West said:


I think the birth rate comes down anyway with economic opportunity and incentive - you see that already in advanced economies.


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Absolutely.  I think that's another side benefit of education and more opportunities.

Also, Ehrlich was off because of modern technology and farming techniques, but the main concern now is different (deforestation, pesticide use, etc.)  Hopefully we can control that too.  I saw one of the bright spots of the interview was they were paying farmers not to chop down trees.  And it wasn't even that much they had to pay them-- something like 1000 dollars per year per farmer (which added up to 1.5 million per year overall which was funded entirely by donations) and that's more than they make by chopping them down. 

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Absolutely.  I think that's another side benefit of education and more opportunities.
Also, Ehrlich was off because of modern technology and farming techniques, but the main concern now is different (deforestation, pesticide use, etc.)  Hopefully we can control that too.  I saw one of the bright spots of the interview was they were paying farmers not to chop down trees.  And it wasn't even that much they had to pay them-- something like 1000 dollars per year per farmer (which added up to 1.5 million per year overall which was funded entirely by donations) and that's more than they make by chopping them down. 

Right - people generally don’t do things for altruistic reasons. They do them for selfish reasons. We all do; it’s just biology. If you pay me to not chop down trees or heat my home with natural gas, I’m going to take you up on that. It’s how we operate.

If a girl’s educational opportunities mean fewer children but more money, she’s likely going to take more money.


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21 minutes ago, North and West said:


Right - people generally don’t do things for altruistic reasons. They do them for selfish reasons. We all do; it’s just biology. If you pay me to not chop down trees or heat my home with natural gas, I’m going to take you up on that. It’s how we operate.

If a girl’s educational opportunities mean fewer children but more money, she’s likely going to take more money.


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Right and this is the best way to cause sustainable change....you have to show people how it benefits them.  It's the whole idea behind benefit corporations too (companies that seek to preserve the environment and help their communities in addition to increasing stock value.)  You have to benefit them by giving them tax breaks and helping them out economically so they can benefit the rest of us.

 

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18 minutes ago, North and West said:

Gotta love that brutal looking map which must have been focus-grouped with people like me.  "Seasonably Cold" in block letters on blue shading behind an ominous looking cold front.

"SEASONABLY COLD" --- you mean, "NORMAL?"

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49 minutes ago, North and West said:

https://www.accuweather.com/en/winter-weather/big-weather-changes-are-on-the-way-for-the-midwest-northeast/1434437

 

Interesting list at the end of this page-- I didn't know 2020 had the most days (by far) between measurable snow.... 332 days, ranks it higher than 1973, 2002, 2000 or 1998!

7 of the top 10 are 1998 or later.

 

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31 minutes ago, coastalplainsnowman said:

Gotta love that brutal looking map which must have been focus-grouped with people like me.  "Seasonably Cold" in block letters on blue shading behind an ominous looking cold front.

"SEASONABLY COLD" --- you mean, "NORMAL?"

Well, seasonably cold/normal would be a step in the right direction from where we are now.

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1 minute ago, North and West said:


I love the batshit insane hype.


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But if you read it and the accuweather linked thread, they say "rain or snow, wet snow or mixed precip" lol and that over the long term extremes usually balance out.  So in the end they're really not saying anything much, just surrounding the hype with a bunch of qualifiers lol.

 

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But if you read it and the accuweather linked thread, they say "rain or snow, wet snow or mixed precip" lol and that over the long term extremes usually balance out.  So in the end they're really not saying anything much, just surrounding the hype with a bunch of qualifiers lol.
 

Filler news.


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56 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

https://www.accuweather.com/en/winter-weather/big-weather-changes-are-on-the-way-for-the-midwest-northeast/1434437

 

Interesting list at the end of this page-- I didn't know 2020 had the most days (by far) between measurable snow.... 332 days, ranks it higher than 1973, 2002, 2000 or 1998!

7 of the top 10 are 1998 or later.

 

I realize that 'measurable' is apparently 0.1 or greater as the article states, and not trace, however it's still funny that smack within that 332 day unmeasurable snow streak ending on Dec. 15, 2020, a trace of snow fell on much of this forum on May 9th.  

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34 minutes ago, coastalplainsnowman said:

I realize that 'measurable' is apparently 0.1 or greater as the article states, and not trace, however it's still funny that smack within that 332 day unmeasurable snow streak ending on Dec. 15, 2020, a trace of snow fell on much of this forum on May 9th.  

That was amazing-- I remember it well!

I think there was a coating even down to Brooklyn and Long Island?

The anniversary of the May 9, 1977 storm!

And that trace happened during the day too!

 

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