Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,608
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    Vesuvius
    Newest Member
    Vesuvius
    Joined

December 2022 Medium-Long Range Disco


WxUSAF
 Share

Recommended Posts

Euro kind of saves the day. Fizzling out Energy does a Miller B - BUT, honestly, a non-pumped system spitting out a little snow is not bad. The trailer looks a bit warm and gets going later but is warm. Things not as great looking all around today as they were in previous days. Transitions are very hard for models to get right.. much less the pieces of energy and how they behave. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, midatlanticweather said:

Euro kind of saves the day. Fizzling out Energy does a Miller B - BUT, honestly, a non-pumped system spitting out a little snow is not bad. The trailer looks a bit warm and gets going later but is warm. Things not as great looking all around today as they were in previous days. Transitions suck on models.

 

as soon as you posted on FB...everything went to the crapper!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, midatlanticweather said:

AHAHAHAHAHA! You posted too! :) Whose fault was it really?

 

The thing that I noticed at h5 is the ridge in the GOM flexing on GEFS over the past few runs which seems to kill the idea of the 9-10th potential....its just too warm...after that who knows

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6z GFS and 12z Euro show that we still have a possible storm window in the Dec 9-10 window and probably more chances beyond that.  But from a RELOAD/pattern point of view, it's become clear that things will take more time and/or be more variable.  Two reasons for that that I see.  Kudos to Prince GEFS here for sniffing this out sooner than King EPS.

1.  Our ridge bridge is not going to capture a piece of the tropospheric PV underneath it like we thought it would.  Look here, we're going to get our ridge bridge with the PV underneath!

image.thumb.png.98d5cfde140b403d77fdbf9f4b88108a.png

But, it doesn't last.  The AK ridging wobbles back west, opening a big fat exit door and the PV escapes.

image.thumb.png.fc3a1c3aa02b145687557f9acab77b00.png

This is what also helps let the SE ridge flex.  No PV to squash it down. It also means we're stuck with somewhat mediocre air masses vs some good arctic air. Contrast that to what we thought we'd have as of last weekend.  We thought/hoped the ridge bridge would persist, and keep the PV trapped.  But it doesn't look like it. 

image.thumb.png.9c45de80c6ee61ce80e8609b5765c48e.png

2.  The damn -PNA.  It's a Nina, so can't be surprised, but it just doesn't want to quit. If we had that PV underneath our -NAO (which does seem wonderfully strong and persistent across all guidance), we could manage the fairly modest -PNA that seems to never want to quit.  But without that cold air mass nearby helping to change the waveguide and force a trough over us, even the somewhat mediocre -PNA shown on today's 12z GEFS would give us fits.  

 

Not sure how this all plays out besides continuing to counsel patience.  The very good news is that we seem to have a very durable -NAO/-AO combination building within the next 3-4 days.  It's not fantasy land!  The blocking is coming.  Question is when we can take advantage.  With that blocking around, Op guidance will produce weird solutions and combine that with the Nina and it's not a recipe for long-track storms regardless.  With that blocking, if we can time up a shortwave with a fresh airmass, we can cash in quick.  

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Weather Will said:

WB 12Z EPS.  You need cold for snow.  Next 7 days won’t cut it,  second 7 day period we need to watch.  Hopefully by this time next week we will see a threat in sight.

22E6B2CC-90D0-4ACA-9D8B-B715E5B13846.png

AAB35F74-9DF1-4A3F-AA1A-F3572A59A36F.png

I feel like I might be missing something but hasn’t this always been the case? It feels like for this whole past week we’ve been targeting the sensible wx flip to lag the pattern flip by about a week. Meaning we’ve never genuinely been expecting cold and snow in the upcoming week, but starting from next weekend (i.e., the 9th on), we might see threats. But even with that, I don’t think anyone was seriously big dog hunting until about a week on from that (from 15th+). 
 

To me, that’s all still suggested by the models but maybe I’m missing something?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

 The damn -PNA.  It's a Nina, so can't be surprised, but it just doesn't want to quit. If we had that PV underneath our -NAO (which does seem wonderfully strong and persistent across all guidance), we could manage the fairly modest -PNA that seems to never want to quit.  But without that cold air mass nearby helping to change the waveguide and force a trough over us, even the somewhat mediocre -PNA shown on today's 12z GEFS would give us fits.  

We were debating last year, and other years as well, what is the most important tele for our area  ?

For snow I think the - AO,  but many feel you need a decent Pac.  I remember many times when we had a very strong West based block, but the Pac was awful and we never cashed in. Again like you said, it is a Nina, so to be expected.  I will believe the snow potential after I measure it on my deck.  I am hopeful, but with a fair degree of skepticism.    Maybe the pattern requires more time to establish itself.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, frd said:

We were debating last year, and other years as well, what is the most important tele for our area  ?

For snow I think the - AO,  but many feel you need a decent Pac.  I remember many times when we had a very strong West based block, but the Pac was awful and we never cashed in. Again like you said, it is a Nina, so to be expected.  I will believe the snow potential after I measure it on my deck.  I am hopeful, but with a fair degree of skepticism.    Maybe the pattern requires more time to establish itself.  

-AO. It fundamentally increases the chances that cold air masses can (frequently) move from the high latitude source regions and migrate into the midlatitudes. That is how it increases snow chances- we need the cold. A -EPO can also bring cold, but can also tend to be on the dry side and absent a -AO/NAO, the pattern is more progressive with lots of variability in storm tracks. We have to then consider the other indices, such as ENSO state and PNA phase, along with climo, to determine how much our snow chances are increased.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just need patience. And luckily this time of year, we have time to be patient. The best window for us lowlanders is 12/15 - 2/15 from a climo standpoint. IF the models have the progression somewhat close we are in good shape heading into prime climo. That’s about all we can hope for IMO. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said:

This is amazing. Is there any chance you could run this for January and February?

Pacific and Atlantic have been matching too, at -0.70 correlation. A 4-5SD -NAO is going to be 3SD -PNA (5-6SD -NAO is going to be a 4SD -PNA) (3SD -NAO is going to be a 2SD -PNA, 0time). No snow for us for a while, at least through 384hr. 

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...