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December 2022


dmillz25
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Just now, EastonSN+ said:

What's funny is December and March CARRIED 2017/2018.

We did get the big storm early Jan and that whacky 4.5 inches that February between 70 degree days. Great winter.

Yeah February was like summer had arrived early lol (complete with mosquitoes and ticks!)  I don't think anything like that has ever happened before.

Bookend winters usually have a break of a few weeks, but that was like a whole different season in the middle lol

 

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6 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Like you have said, March seems to have gotten better than December for consistency though.  The core of winter, when one should expect snow, is January and February.  So whatever we get now is actually just an appetizer.  

When January and February don't produce, aside from vast outliers like 2018, our winters usually suck.

 

Early January 2018 had one of my favorite snowstorm of all time.  True white out conditions for hours.....it was like a semi January 2016 here, exactly half the snowfall and blizzard conditions for 3 hours instead of 6.  AND ALL DAY SNOW-- which is really what I crave.  I can't stand night time snowstorms.

 

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18 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

In winter it's actually less, I would doubt anything more than 5 days out

 

The models did a good job seeing the primary low cutting from 8-10 days out for around the 15th. It was the 11-15 day runs which had a KU pattern. So that’s what is meant by getting pushed back. Now the threat before Christmas is beginning to get pushed back. Go back to the beginning of this thread in late November when the ensembles had a great looking 11-15 day pattern after December 5-7. That is not to say that we won’t get lucky late December into early January. We just need to see it day 8-10 first in order to lock it in.
 

 

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Just now, bluewave said:

The models did a good job seeing the cutter from 10 days out for around the 15th. It was the 11-15 day runs which had a KU pattern. So that’s what is meant by getting pushed back. Now the threat before Christmas is beginning to get pushed back. Go back to the beginning of this thread in late November when the ensembles had a great looking 11-15 day pattern after December 5-7. That is not to say that we won’t get lucky late December into early January. We just need to see it day 8-10 first in order to lock it in.
 

 

Is there some kind of principle why models do a much better job with cutters than they do with east coast snowstorms? I would guess that cutters are much more obvious and easier for models to sense and for our big snowstorms the set ups are much more fragile.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any 12+ snowstorm for our area that was sensed more than 5 days out-- aside from maybe February 1978?  What an accomplishment that was almost 45 years ago!  I'd put that right up there with the moon landings in the 60s and early 70s lol.

 

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Just now, LibertyBell said:

Is there some kind of principle why models do a much better job with cutters than they do with east coast snowstorms? I would guess that cutters are much more obvious and easier for models to sense and for our big snowstorms the set ups are much more fragile.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any 12+ snowstorm for our area that was sensed more than 5 days out-- aside from maybe February 1978?  What an accomplishment that was almost 45 years ago!  I'd put that right up there with the moon landings in the 60s and early 70s lol.

 

Much like with analytics in baseball the models allow people to go searching for the answers they want to find...in other words the most favorable outcomes.

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1 minute ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

Much like with analytics in baseball the models allow people to go searching for the answers they want to find...in other words the most favorable outcomes.

Which is why everyone sees what they want to see and in post analysis you end up with some very subjective "grades" lol

 

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7 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The models did a good job seeing the cutter from 10 days out for around the 15th. It was the 11-15 day runs which had a KU pattern. So that’s what is meant by getting pushed back. Now the threat before Christmas is beginning to get pushed back. Go back to the beginning of this thread in late November when the ensembles had a great looking 11-15 day pattern after December 5-7. That is not to say that we won’t get lucky late December into early January. We just need to see it day 8-10 first in order to lock it in.
 

 

This.   We started Dec 5-7 now we are pushing Xmas with anything decent.

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3 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

This.   We started Dec 5-7 now we are pushing Xmas with anything decent.

Which is what Forky forecasted the whole time, after Christmas is when all the fun starts. Models just rushing everything like they always do.

Just because models rushed the look does not mean it's not going to happen.

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13 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Is there some kind of principle why models do a much better job with cutters than they do with east coast snowstorms? I would guess that cutters are much more obvious and easier for models to sense and for our big snowstorms the set ups are much more fragile.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any 12+ snowstorm for our area that was sensed more than 5 days out-- aside from maybe February 1978?  What an accomplishment that was almost 45 years ago!  I'd put that right up there with the moon landings in the 60s and early 70s lol.

 

I think the reason models do so much better with primary lows cutting to our west day 6-10 is that they can be off by 500 miles or more and still verify. A primary low can track 50 miles west of NYC and bring mostly rain to the coast. Same goes for a primary cutting near Chicago. But a benchmark storm can’t very from 6-10 day out if the margin of error results in 500 mile track errors. So the normal day 6-10 day model track error isn’t precise enough to handle benchmark tracks. But they have much more leeway in the margin of error for a track to our west.

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2 minutes ago, EastonSN+ said:

Which is what Forky forecasted the whole time, after Christmas is when all the fun starts. Models just rushing everything like they always do.

Just because models rushed the look does not mean it's not going to happen.

He's probably going to be right. The blocking forecast is in rarified territory and even moreso if we dip below 5 which is possible. 

Things will be more clear after we get Friday's system out of the way

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Just now, SnoSki14 said:

He's probably going to be right. The blocking forecast is in rarified territory and even moreso if we dip below 5 which is possible. 

Things will be more clear after we get Friday's system out of the way

Yup, until an actual red tagger (this is literally their career) states concern I would not.

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Remember, getting pushed back doesn’t mean we won’t eventually get a 4-6” snow in NYC. While we don’t have the 2010 record blocking, models were showing snowstorms long range for all of December 2010.  So the snowy pattern got  delayed by 3 weeks or more depending on the model. But sometimes pushback patterns ultimately disappoint. So we would be happy with something in between a shutout and historic KU. Most would be happy with a 4-6”+ event in NYC from late December into early January. Plus several 1-3” 2-4” type snows to put us into double digits by January 10th.

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3 minutes ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

Everyone, please take 5-10 minutes to read the posts from late November.....

Exactly, like Forky said after Christmas the whole time, anyone should have known that the earlier good looks were just the models rushing things like they always do. Just like 2010 and 2018 where it took a month.

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